Flush draw and tpwk

I've got a good seat at a 9-handed table. Villain 2 is a maniac playing 68/17/1.65 over 29 hands to my immediate right. He's bet draws, raised low pockets pre-flop UTG... he's all over the place.

The other villain is 41/8/0.9 over 36 hands.

Villain 1 (SB) $39
Villain 2 (UTG+1) $49
Hero (UTG+2) $40

Hero dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB posts $0.5, 1 fold, villain 2 raises to $1.50, hero calls, 1 fold, 2 calls, 1 fold, villain 1 (SB) calls, BB folds.

I considered trying to issolate pre-flop with a raise to $10, but I didn't think JQs was really strong enough.

Flop ($8)

3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain 1 checks, villain 2 bets $3, hero calls, 2 folds, villain 1 calls

Turn ($17)
J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villain 1 checks, villain 2 bets $5, hero ?

Comments on all streets welcome. Results later...

[beavens]

id be raising both streets - if only to try and get a free card.

.edit as well as juice that pot up.

[Go_Blue88]

I'd call the turn

But I'd either fold or raise the flop.

I posted this hand because I think I made a real mess of it. I wanted badly to push back at villain 2. Maybe a flop raise would have been the better place to do it - I can't see folding to under 1/2 pot bet though.

I raised the turn $10. Villain 1 folds and Villain 2 puts me all-in. I call getting 4:1.

Villain has pocket 3s for a set which holds up on the river.

[quarkncover]

Preflop: I like reraising or folding pre-flop against such a LAGgy player. I think its very important to isolate the maniac when you have position. Personally, at a nine-handed table I'm folding this pre-flop, reason: stacks too shallow to be messing around with JQs.

Flop: meh...

Turn: lets see you have about 35 left, pot is 22 I push here. Turn bet is super weak, and unless you've seen him bet small with strong hands, I think this is an easy push. You have a good amount of FE, and you're probably ahead here < 50% of the time. Pushing also might induce a call by a weaker hand, at these stakes maniacs don't like to fold.

[quarkncover]

First of all, regarding your flop call, you're drawing to the 3rd nuts with two players to act behind you. A very marginal call even though you're getting about 3.5-1 on your money. Maybe raise to try for a free turn card, ugly spot on flop.

Why are you min-raising on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
What does this accomplish???????

After being three-bet all-in against such a maniac I'm probably auto-calling here, his range is too wide. Turn call is fine.

Sometimes when I'm making decisions, particularly difficult post-flop decisions, I verbalize my thought process before I click the button. It really helps me when defining a villain's hand range. Simply it helps me understand why I am doing what I am doing. Easy for the mind to trick itself into believing things, particularly in the deceptive world of poker. So slow down and make sense of what you're doing. Try it sometime.

-Quarkncover

[scrapperdog]

I would play the turn slow here. To bet out twice like villian did he has got something and obviously that jack did not worry him much. I flat call and consider my options on the river, hopefully the flush comes. Or maybe chuck it all in if the villian was annoying me enough. Either way the miniraise is bad.