Was Hitler right when he said.........

[Piers]

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Had Hitler won the war would he have been seen as the greatest hero of all time?

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I answered “NO”, as most of the world’s population would still despise him, and would have their own national heroes to boot.

There might be scenarios where Hitler would be generally acclaimed the greatest hero of our time after 60 years, but I think that possibility has a very low likelihood given just that Hitler won the Second World War.

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My point is that there is no objective good or evil. Good and evil can only be viewed subjectively.

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Yes, we can agree on that.

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If this is true. Then how can there be a God that presides objectively over what is good and evil?

Anyone who votes 'Yes' admits that there is no God, whether they know it or not.

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Ah! This is where you are going off track.

You cannot use logic to prove there is no God. (Or that there is a God)

I think it is easily possible for someone to both believe in a God and not believe in absolute morality. Although such a pairing would clearly not be consistent with many peoples concept of God, that does not however make it impossible.

Further being a Great Hero does not neccesarily make someone good where good is being used as the antonym of evil. So even if you do not accept the possibility of both God and no absolute morality, it would still be perfectly possible to believe someone both evil and a great hero.

Still I guess we won’t know for sure until the Forth Reich creates a world empire at the end of the genetic cloning wars of the late 21’st century. Eeek! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[VivaLaViking]

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If you choose no, I hope you will explain yourself. And you DO owe me an explanation, for I am your intellectual superior.


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That is huberous given that you do not even know who you are talking to.

You must make even further assumptions than merely indoctrination. Specifically, the populations dominated. If you assume the former soviet union, all of western Europe and Germany's ally, Japan; that still leaves the US, South America and China, some of the fastest growing populations, to name only a few. China will never forgive Japan for it's WWII actions and by proxy, Germany. I am not Jewish but given time he would be seen for what he was, an aberration.

[RxForMoreCowbell]

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What you forget is that the masses did not know anything of the genocide during the war. And had it been carried out completely or the war never came to an end, I doubt anything would be known of the concentration camps.

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I'm interested to see what Slater has to say about this. As I said before, I believe the Nazi's would have wanted credit for the Holocaust, and so they would have put it in the history books. Slater does seem to be an authority on WWII (he seems to have read quite a bit about it) so I'd like to see his take. Also, he Captained the Bayside wrestling and football teams to numerous huge victories over Valley, so we owe him some respect.

[malorum]

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Still I guess we won’t know for sure until the Forth Reich creates a world empire at the end of the genetic cloning wars of the late 21’st century. Eeek!

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Werk in progress. Disturben sie nicht bitte.

[A_C_Slater]

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If you choose no, I hope you will explain yourself. And you DO owe me an explanation, for I am your intellectual superior.


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That is huberous given that you do not even know who you are talking to.

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Did you mean to use the word "hubris?" If you did, then I think I can rest my case when it comes to my intellectual superiority.


Hitler knew that even the patriotic German's would object to the massive slaughtering of the Jew's. Most of the population was under the impression that they simply were deported or migrated to the U.S. and other countrie's (which many did.)

Hitler's original plan was to deport all the Jews to Madagascar, but the logistics of it became to difficult. Also, the large population of Jews would have been killed anyway living in that tropical disease crawling land (yet it's a beautiful place visually.)


BONUS HITLER TRIVIA:

Hitler's favorite movie was 'King Kong.'

[oreogod]

I dont exactly know if its something they would put in the history books. Although Hitler did say something to the effect of "if anything I have done the world a great service of getting ride of the jews."

At the same time, he knew most ppl would object to this. I think if germany was to fully take over, propaganda would be rampant (to the point of what is true or false), it would probably be a lot like 1984 as well, with wars going on. Maybe Hitler wouldnt take over the entire world...say he takes over 2/3s of it....and is in a constant war by choice against China. In 1984 there are 3 countries in constant war w/ each other but by aggreement as a way of control.

I think only after the 3rd Reich has been destoryed would anything resembling truth and what Hitler did would be known.

[oreogod]

Forgot to mention this.

From Wikpedia
"n 1928, Hitler went on to write a second book in which he expanded upon these ideas and suggested that around 1980, a final struggle would take place for world domination between the United States and the combined forces of Greater Germany and the British Empire"

I havent read it, but it sounds intresting. The published title of the book is Hitler's Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kempf. Probably look it up sometime to see how he planned to tackle the world.

[PokerAmateur4]

I vote yes.

There is no right or wrong, no criterion exists to judge them.

Indoctrination P0wn3 j00.

[J. Stew]

I chose no, here's why . . .

Intolerance needs rule and restriction to maintain it's power on the mind. The natural mind naturally seeks freedom. Oppressed people seek freedom. If Hitler dominated and spawned generations more, people would eventually revolt, freedom would win because freedom is truth and people inherently 'know' truth because we are truth, and society would be rebuilt in a way that better resembles values stemming from this truth. In however long it would take, society would realize that intolerance is not truth, that is, it is not part of our basic consciousness but is a learned belief/idea, and then it would be obvious that Hitler was a villain for impressing intolerance.

[baggins]

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Assuming the reich maintains both its political cohesion and political direction (i.e. Hitler is not demonised by later 'nazi' leaders with their own agenda.) Then yes the political consensus would be that he is a hero.

The point being??

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I like how you put that. Yes, exactly, assuming all those things.

My point is that there is no objective good or evil. Assuming the following scenario we would live in a world where Jews are considered evil terrorists and those that slaughter them would be the hero's. Good and evil can only be viewed subjectively.


If this is true. Then how can there be a God that presides objectively over what is good and evil?

Anyone who votes 'Yes' admits that there is no God, whether they know it or not.

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nonsense. voting yes is stating an either/or general opinion about how people would view Hitler under different circumstances post WWII.

you cannot ASSUME that good and evil are subjective and derive that there is no God. that is logical fallacy. there may be disagreement about what is Good and what is Evil, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an objective standard. Those of us who believe in God would say that He is the standard of good and evil. whether people accept that, or have different opinions of whether or not an evil villain was truly evil doesn't affect the fact (true or false) that God is the objective standard of morality.