A Couple Interesting Points About Religion

In a recent thread, "Saved by God?", one of the major reasons why I consider myself agnostic, was briefly raised. Im a little disappointed that it didnt get more discussion so ive started a thread to see how some of you specific religion people account for it.

What follows is a couple of posts from that thread which illustrate the first point about religion I wanted to make. My second point is related to the final post so I will make it following that.

BrennerHayes- "I consider the entire Bible to be a work of fiction. I view it probably in the exact same light as you view every organized religion except for Christianity (and the Christianity-related ones.) So I probably have the exact same belief as you about every other organized religion. We both believe that they were made up by humans for various reasons. We only really differ on just one. "

Spaminator- "Yes, your probably right."

Sklansky- "And this dialogue would occur regardless of which of the several dozens of religious beliefs the second person was a practitioner of. It constantly amazes me that this in itself doesn't give people extreme pause."

Sexdrugsmoney- "David, If you would invest time to study Christianity, (ie- From Genesis to Revelations = 66 books) which I know for someone who is a novice to the religion like yourself is a big ask, (which you have stated you will not do also - fair enough) you would see that it is clearly explained."

This point, that religious Christians see other specific religions (and vice versa) as absurd, illogical, false, easily explained, etc. really should, as Sklansky put it, "give people extreme pause." Please dont misunderstand me, this doesnt prove one thing about the truth of religious claims, but it should make you think long and hard about why you hold certain views to be true.

I was born and raised Mormon. As a young child I remember going to church one day and there were a bunch of evangelical Christians outside the entrance to our parking lot handing out literature explaining why Mormons were wrong and why they were right. After church I talked to my parents about why they would do this. When my parents told me that these people also believed in Jesus and the Bible I could not believe it. I was young and I could see how Jews or Muslims might not like us but I could not grasp how a fellow Christian could feel this way.

Sorry for the personal story but it leads me to my second point. For many years I struggled with this notion, that religious people recognized the nonsense of other religions. Every time I asked religious leaders or family about it the answer was very close to what Sexdrugsmoney said....to paraphrase.."well just study and pray about Christianity and youll see why its the one" This answer was fine and good but it still didnt expalin to me why my Jewish neighbors, very good upstanding people, didnt come to Christianity after all their prayer and study.

The only answer that satisfactorily expalined this to me came from my father years later when we were discussing the above problem. He told me that the thing about religion that allways struck him most was that 90% of people die holding the same religious belief as their father. Keeping the above points in mind has helped me to more clearly see what religion is and isnt. Lots of people like to talk about the benefits and advantages of religions and for the most part they are right about whatever they are talikng about. But this is not to be confused with religion as some kind of quest for knowledge or the truth.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling nature of my post but I am curious as to how religious people reconcile these facts. Namely that specificily religious people see other specificily religious people not much different from an athiest. Now this wouldnt be much of a problem if one religion was clearly reasonable or made sense, but unless your born into a specific faith the odds are overwhelming that you will not view it as reasonable.

[ QUOTE ]
I am curious as to how religious people reconcile these facts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking a stab, I'd guess the true answer is along the lines of "ignorance is bliss." Christians that I have talked to are quick to denounce other religions, when asked for details they generally know very little about other religious teachings except that "they are wrong and we are right." The same thing can be said of many people of other faiths.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion,but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-H. L. Mencken

As long at you are starting this thread here, I wanted to add my follow-up to Sklansky's point where I said it is also surprising when you don't just think about every other religion that currently exists. Any student of history will realize that every single religion that was small, medium sized, or largely popular has come and gone over the many many centuries. So this fact should also give people extreme pause as this conversation dialog could occur with the second person throughout the history of mankind.

[baggins]

i reconcile it thus:

i don't consider myself 'religious'. i don't perform a bunch of rituals and follow a bunch of rules in hopes that one day, when i die, i will have earned my way to a blissful eternity as opposed to a nasty torturous one.

instead, i claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. I am not perfect, of course. but I don't follow blindly, either. I moved away from my faith and any church affiliation and involvement for a long time. and i ultimately came back to it.

i think Jesus came to do more than just offer us redemption for wicked hearts so that we can avoid eternal punishment if we just believe. I believe that God designed us a human beings in a certain way that our lives would be filled with joy and meaning and enrichment on many levels. and i believe that he laid out some pretty straightforward guidelines on how to best adapt our behaviors to maximize that joy and meaning and enrichment here in this life today. not just in some cloud-in-the-sky afterlife. i also believe that our hearts are created good, not fundamentally flawed. i believe that, in Theological terms, a discussion of the condition of the human heart (spiritually speaking) needs to examine that we were created in God's image BEFORE there was any sinful nature to us. we were created good. but god has his enemies, and the Thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. and we buy into the lies he feeds us.

i believe a lot more, but i am exhausted and will maybe post more tomorrow.

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyways, sorry for the rambling nature of my post but I am curious as to how religious people reconcile these facts.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are many unique things about Christianity which makes it clearly different from any other world view.

1. Nature of God - He is the Absolute Personality, eternal, and the Creator of the universe. Judaism and to some extent Islam share this view because they accept the Old Testament in common with Christianity.

2. Nature of Man - Made perfect but untested by God. After Adam sinned all his progeny are sinners and in need of salvation. This is unique to Christianity.

3. Nature of Jesus - God's Son, fully human and fully divine, He lived a sinless life and offered Himself as a sacrifice for sins so that anyone who accepts His gift is forgiven. This is also unique to Christianity.

It isn't surprising that there are false religions. The Old Testament is full of references to idolatry. In New Testament times Paul spoke of how false gospels were already being preached. If the Bible is true about the nature of man, it would be surprising if there were not many false religions.

[ QUOTE ]
There are many unique things about Christianity which makes it clearly different from any other world view.

1. Nature of God - He is the Absolute Personality, eternal, and the Creator of the universe. Judaism and to some extent Islam share this view because they accept the Old Testament in common with Christianity.

2. Nature of Man - Made perfect but untested by God. After Adam sinned all his progeny are sinners and in need of salvation. This is unique to Christianity.

3. Nature of Jesus - God's Son, fully human and fully divine, He lived a sinless life and offered Himself as a sacrifice for sins so that anyone who accepts His gift is forgiven. This is also unique to Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you still need much more to stand out from the croud, just an atheists opinion

[udontknowmickey]

Well, the one most important thing about Christianity that no other religion has is Grace.

No where else do you have a religion that denies you can work or earn your way to heaven, but rather Heaven is a gift freely given and undeserved.

[David Sklansky]

"Well, the one most important thing about Christianity that no other religion has is Grace.

No where else do you have a religion that denies you can work or earn your way to heaven, but rather Heaven is a gift freely given and undeserved."

I guess Catholics are just basically Jews who can't stand giving up Christmas? Or does BluffThis have me confused?

[udontknowmickey]

[ QUOTE ]

"Well, the one most important thing about Christianity that no other religion has is Grace.

No where else do you have a religion that denies you can work or earn your way to heaven, but rather Heaven is a gift freely given and undeserved."

I guess Catholics are just basically Jews who can't stand giving up Christmas? Or does BluffThis have me confused?


[/ QUOTE ]

The way Catholics define grace is markedly different from the way Protestants (and I would say, the Bible) does.

Quoting an article from a Catholic apologist:

[ QUOTE ]

The bottom line: all salvation comes from the grace of Christ's Sacrifice and only from the grace of His Sacrifice. Salvation is a free gift -- a gift that is not "owed" to us, that God didn't have to offer us, and that we could never "earn" on our own -- that we accept by faith and works. Christ doesn't have to give us this gift of salvation; we don't "deserve" this gift, we can't "earn" it; but He, in His endless Love for us, offers it nonetheless. We have to believe this gift exists (have faith) and then open our hands to receive it (do works inspired by the grace given to us).


[/ QUOTE ] (Scott Hahn)
emphasis mine

[Georgia Avenue]

This surely is unhelpful to you, but since you asked: My specific Christian group reconciles this by denying that any religion is absurd on it's face and by claiming that a man's relationship to God and Christ is his (and Their) own business and should be handled in whatever way They deem. We tend our own gardens, thank you.

Any religion which believes differently is full of ignorant infidels!!!!questionmark11!!
[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]