Steal attempt meets interesting flop... Call?

You really think your flush redraw is good?

I think he has a made hand, and i think he has a bigger flush draw than yours to go with it.

I fold. Sounds like a good table, I would find a better spot.

Or like Jackal said wait for the turn to decide what to do, although if you make your flush you will probably push anyway. Cold calling the villians bet on that flop should be very scary for him if he is not holding a made flush.

[IHateKeithSmart]

Yeah, I really don't think this is majorly w/t (maybe minorly). We need to be honest with ourselves here - we made 2 stabs at the pot, and they didn't work. If we are just going to go blindly with the odds, then call I guess, but I think we may be trying to shape villain's holdings to the side we want.

Another possible holding I see is an overpair (w or w/o the flush draw). If villain is confident that we are stealing, he may not reraise pf with a big pair so as not to blow us off our hand.

[bobbycharles]

Your read: villain solid
Villains probable read: you're on a steal

Why would villain smooth call?
Last time you folded a reraise. (He wants you in the pot)
Why would villain lead out?
A. He hit his set?
B. He has top pair and a flush draw?
Why would he reraise?
A. Scary flop fear of you sucking out on flush draw against his top pair or made set.
B. Top pair AcAx or KcKx with big flush draw.

Or C. hero's read is wrong, villain is a donk and is going all in on his gutshot T7.

I like the fold here regardless of the odds as the table is still favorable for stealing. My thoughts are your two shots at the pot failed, so give it up. (Incidently, in the heat of the battle, the real me probably calls also and cusses myself for the rest of the night.)

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
do you really want to go broke with top pair/7 kicker or with the 7th-best flush redraw?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I think it's the best hand, <bleep> yeah.

[MSUcougar]

[ QUOTE ]
Your read: villain solid
Villains probable read: you're on a steal

Why would villain smooth call?
Last time you folded a reraise. (He wants you in the pot)
Why would villain lead out?
A. He hit his set?
B. He has top pair and a flush draw?
Why would he reraise?
A. Scary flop fear of you sucking out on flush draw against his top pair or made set.
B. Top pair AcAx or KcKx with big flush draw.

Or C. hero's read is wrong, villain is a donk and is going all in on his gutshot T7.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I tried to put myself in villain's shoes... First off, he has plenty of chips, so he could be conceivably calling with almost any 2. Assuming he's a solid, thinking player, I can easily see him thinking my flop raise is any 2 cards as well. I raised PF, and I'm now taking a stab at the flop on a scary board. IF he puts me on a steal on the flop, I can see him making this push with almost anything... ESPECIALLY if he has a part of the flop or a club or whatever.

Now back to me, if this read is even sometimes correct, I think this is a call.

Thoughts on this reasoning?

[adanthar]

Villain's probably got you beat, but in order to have you beat by more than the pot odds you're getting, he's got to have both the pair and the draw some obscenely large amount of the time. There's no way he has both that often, so call.

That said, I just call the flop and see what he does on the turn. You really want to see a turn card before proceeding (and yes, I'm probably calling a non-club, non-A turn push).

[bobbycharles]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming he's a solid, thinking player, I can easily see him thinking my flop raise is any 2 cards as well. I raised PF, and I'm now taking a stab at the flop on a scary board. IF he puts me on a steal on the flop, I can see him making this push with almost anything... ESPECIALLY if he has a part of the flop or a club or whatever.

Now back to me, if this read is even sometimes correct, I think this is a call.

Thoughts on this reasoning?

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally can't argue with that reasoning as you certainly have the odds LT. I think I'm basing it on the fact that he's folded to your raises before. So I don't think he truly could have any two cards. A thinking player realizes he folded before to the raise so he may try and throw you off with a smooth call with less than premium. (I'd almost prefer to be reraised than smooth called as it screams of trickery.) Certainly easier to get away from psychologically.

So you said you called....what did he have?

[MSUcougar]

[ QUOTE ]
So you said you called....what did he have?

[/ QUOTE ]
I called and he showed 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

So I was ahead at that moment, but the turn came a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so I busted...

I don't regret making the call.