76s turn C'R 2 parter

[DcifrThs]

playing a short (6handed) 1/2 game and the following situation comes up. there were some bad players at the table but the good ones kept busting them. the remaining soft spot is UTG in this hand. he is about to bust as well and only has about 500 in front of him. i have the autopost button unclicked as i dont feel like playing against 4 very good players who i do see at the tables all the time and consistently dont ever get out of line or make mistakes (they rarely make big mistakes, from what i've seen and although im sure they do make them, theyre probably small) and who im sure know me by now.

so the fish folds and im dealt 76cc in this very rare situation i raise. i proceed to be 3bet on the button by a great player. i just call. who caps here?

the flop is amazing Qc8s4c i check he bets i c'r he 3bet now i cap (who calls here?)

the turn is the Ad i check he bets i raise. who continuation bets the turn? and if raised?

thats part 1.

-Barron

[stoxtrader]

slightly out of line, but not terrible until the turn. the turn c/r?

I doubt he 3 bets JJ or TT on that flop.....

at this point the pot is pretty large i guess so tiny folding equity might be worth it, but i think its pretty darn tiny. you are also forfeiting a good part of your chance for a river c/r when you do hit, and also making it more likely you need to follow through on the river if you don't.

[DcifrThs]

He thought for the entire time and ended up folding at the last second.

now the real question: do i show?

explanation and thoughts later.

-Barron

[daryn]

i like everything except your turn play. i hope you don't think it was a good play because it worked!

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
i like everything except your turn play. i hope you don't think it was a good play because it worked!

[/ QUOTE ]

no i dont...and i guess now is as good a time as any to get to the real point.

i wanted to start a discussion on the value of showing hands in certain spots. i was having a discussion w/ a poker friend and he told me about a hand he saw played at 1/2 with a bunch of regulars and i put myself there as the regular who played it like this in order to get a discussion on the value of the SHOW...not the play.

now this guy thinks a longgg time and folds. do you show the 76cc?

i argued YES. when you have the rare situation to do this and dont take advantage of the very point of doing it then i think you really lose the bigtime confusion value of this. Personally, i play with "automuck" on all the time so this never comes up for me. the thing is, is having automuck OFF worth the extra 2 seconds every hand you win w/o a showdown in order to get the value of this type of hand? on this i argued no because you slow the game down and lose value in terms of hands/hour played....so although i think the show would be correct, i dont think the long term value of it is worth taking off an automuck and slowing the game down unnecessarily for every session.

my friend said that while its NOT worth it to show b/c you want to be able to use the turn c'r like this more often (a play here which i do disagree with in the first place), IF you did think its worth it to show, then you should unclick automuck because the extra hands / hour dont compensate for your loss.

i felt like we were talking in circles so i posted the hand he saw and the argument of the show. the guy obvisously did show other wise we'd never know he had the 76cc.

-Barron

[daryn]

to show or not to show? the answer is (what a shocker) it depends. if you think showing will tilt the guy madly causing him to dump his stack into your lap, then by all means show.

you must think there is some advantage to showing, otherwise what's the point? "haha i bluffed you!" if he doesn't care then it doesn't do you much good does it? what if the guy is a v v solid player? you are probably only giving him information you don't want to give him.

[Senor Choppy]

I play with automuck on until I make a play like this against someone I think might steam or won't adjust in the right way. While they're deliberating, I uncheck.

As far as whether or not this is a hand to show, I don't like giving good players info unless it's really bad info. Letting him know you'll make plays at the pot with big draws is not helpful unless it's totally out of the ordinary for you. If you have some weird read and are doing something odd that's really a 1 in a million type situation, then showing is giving him faulty information and is the right play.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I play with automuck on until I make a play like this against someone I think might steam or won't adjust in the right way. While they're deliberating, I uncheck.

As far as whether or not this is a hand to show, I don't like giving good players info unless it's really bad info. Letting him know you'll make plays at the pot with big draws is not helpful unless it's totally out of the ordinary for you. If you have some weird read and are doing something odd that's really a 1 in a million type situation, then showing is giving him faulty information and is the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about that i open raise w/ 76cc...would that lower his standards vs. me allowing my edge to be greater pf the times i dont have the hand or will he correctly realize he shouldn't adjust his standards at all for a1 time thing?

-Barron

[flawless_victory]

i like a call of the flop threebet, i also like the turn checkraise... eff these haters.

[Senor Choppy]

If you never open in EP or MP with something like 76s, it can't hurt to show, either he correctly assumes it's a one time thing and disregards it, which is EV neutral, or he thinks you're a clown, which shows a profit (assuming you like getting 3-bet more).

Before PT, PV, etc., I remember people making image plays like this all the time. I made some really terrible isolation raises because of it, so I know it can work, assuming anyone is really paying attention at this point.