QQ flop in very large pot

In a hand with 6 players, there is a very good chance you are already beat and well behind. Still, you should bet out here. See where the action takes you - if there is a slew of re-raises that follow, you can fold and feel like you made the correct decision. What's the point of a big pot when someone with Ax, even if that X is a rag, leaves you with 2 to 3 outs at best (assuming that someone doesn't have the Kspade). On the other hand, if everyone just calls, well, then maybe the pot is big enough to justify betting again on the turn as long as a spade or K doesn't come up. In other words, your flop bet should be a probe bet, something to feel things out, but you're eyes should be set on folding a hand if the betting gets hot. Just got to deal with QQ losing sometimes, that's all.

[gonores]

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but you're eyes should be set on folding a hand if the betting gets hot.

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This is why betting shouldn't be done too often in this spot. If you bet out and it 2 more to call when it gets back to you, you HAVE to call. Now you've just paid 3 SBs to see a turn card. Not that I hate betting, but my primary thoughts on this flop is "how do I get to the turn for cheap?" If the best hand on this board is Ax where X is small enough to consider a fold (and the player is bad enough to both play Ax in a spot like that and fold a huge pot with this hand), you can try to cross that bridge later in the hand.

Fair enough, but on a board with two spades, if you are checking in mid position, a player may deduce that his "A"x is still good on the turn by reasoning that in a large, multi-way pot, you would have definitely played your "A"(J-K kicker), trips, two pair, with a flush and outside straight draw on board.

Now, I do see your point that if the players are so abyssmal, they may not see a check as a sure sign hero doesn't have an "A," trips, or two pair. However, that's a very risky assumption to make here.

Betting out also gives you a small chance of getting position on the turn (unlikely, but for one SB, why not).

So, if you are in any way planning to see this pot any further, betting out seems to be the best plan.

Argun

[Justin A]

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Anyone who claims that they can't see a turn for 2SBs here is wrong. We're looking at a bare minimum of 14:1 and Justin has a good 4 outs, after discounting all his draws. I mean, half the damn deck gives him a good draw at the river.

As far as the hand goes, I think betting isn't a bad alternative...something I'd do occasionally. It'll add deception to your hand, and it may make people make bad folds. However, I'll check usually here, since it seems to be the kind of field where I can see a turn cheaper by checking.

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Yeah this is a good point and I would have definitely continued for 2 small bets, maybe 3. The 8 is an important card here because it makes my backdoor straight outs pretty strong. As Gonores said I have about 4 outs here and my implied odds are probably good enough to see the turn for 3 bets.

Something that no one has mentioned is that there's still some chance that I have the best hand on the flop. If I do have the best hand, giving a free card is not good, but is that outweighed by my desire to see the turn as cheaply as possible if I don't have the best hand?

I'm going to amend my argument. I am going to advocate checking. Basically, I want to see what HJ, Poster, and button do first. Then, I can go from there. I don't see how with three people to go, someone is not betting at this flop. Let them do the weeding out for you, and then when it gets back to you, make a decision. No way you're giving a "free card" here with that many players. Gonores is smart and I'm dumb.

Argun

I check and call for one bet. For two I fold.

[Justin A]

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I check and call for one bet. For two I fold.

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Folding for two bets is a mistake.

[I.Rowboat]

If the limpers are the sort that would also limp KT or 9T in a full game, I think that further mitigates the value of putting any more money into this pot. You could be drawing completely dead here, as gutshots are getting the right price to peel even if it's two bets to them. I think the play here is to check/call one bet and fold to two.

[Justin A]

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If the limpers are the sort that would also limp KT or 9T in a full game, I think that further mitigates the value of putting any more money into this pot. You could be drawing completely dead here, as gutshots are getting the right price to peel even if it's two bets to them. I think the play here is to check/call one bet and fold to two.

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Did you read the thread?

[andyfox]

"If I do have the best hand, giving a free card is not good"

Nobody's folding for one small bet, so I don't see it as a tragedy if it happens to get checked around. It sure would seem likely, though, that there's an ace behind you.

In my game, I wouldn't decide to bet or check based on the value of deception. In a pot this size, they're calling, calling, calling.