QQ Hand

[skp]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really want to checkraise, I think you could raise preflop and still get a checkraise in on the flop quite often. You check the flop with 6 guys to act one of them will decide to bet, especially because your hand will look like AK to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, good stuff. Then when they see you play this way with QQ, you also stand a better chance of getting a free card when you raise from the bb with Ak and the flop comes J85.

There is no rule that I know of which says that you must bet the flop when you raise preflop.

In fact, my standard play here would be to raise preflop and check on the J85 flop to checkraise a player to my right. If a player to my left bets and a couple of guys call, I would still checkraise now - for value rather than limiting the field - and sow some doubt in their minds that I flopped a set of jacks.

Just calling the flop - because the bet came from your left - is inferior to checkraising. Lots of stuff can happen on the turn which may foil your plans to checkraise on the turn. For example, if an ace or King comes, you may have to bet it yourself as the action might get checked through if they put you on Ak. Also if the turn is a 9 or something and the board is now J985, a bet and a raise ahead of you may leave you in a quandary as to what to do with your qq.

All kinds of crap can happen. You should decloak on the flop. Besides, as Mike l. said, they would never put you on QQ since you didn't raise preflop and someone with a hand as "weak" as KJ may go to war with ya.

[J_V]

Responses like this will bury this forum pretty quickly. If you don't like the hand give a reason why. The point of this forum isn't to be elitist and that's all I'm seeing.

[lil feller]

This is not the sort of respones that a mod should make. We all know you can contribute BK.

lf

[J_V]

I think almost anytime you slowplay a big pair preflop, your best play is to lead/3-bet, over check-raising. Waiting to the turn with this mainly players is a disaster.

I think you may have been thinking one street at a time in this hand and ran yourself into a pickle. That is usually how I get myself into these messes - and it almost always happens when I'm in unfamiliar territory (in this case - a five way limped pot) w/ QQ.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
You can rip me all you want as long as you specify which plays were wrong and why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise pre-flop.

Given that you didn't I don't think your line is the worst, although I think betting out and 3 betting is a superior play.

The river is close. check/calling is probably better than betting but esp given that almost raise on the flop I think j8 is a distinct possibilty.

And sorry to all for being a dick, esp boris.

[ggbman]

I think raising preflop and pushing your equity edge is the correct play. Given that you didn't, like bet/3betting the flop followed by check-raising. I don't like the check call, you likely have the best hand and want some value and to shut out people in a multiway pot.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I think almost anytime you slowplay a big pair preflop, your best play is to lead/3-bet, over check-raising. Waiting to the turn with this mainly players is a disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was about to make a post in this thread like i did w/ TT post but i saw you make a post and wanted to read it first. this is exactly what i was thinking. and i think you're dead on. checking the flop here given the preflop play is no goot.

[ QUOTE ]

I think you may have been thinking one street at a time in this hand and ran yourself into a pickle. That is usually how I get myself into these messes - and it almost always happens when I'm in unfamiliar territory (in this case - a five way limped pot) w/ QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

again, dead on. when you travel in unchartered waters, you make more mistakes even if your initial decision to chart into those waters was good. the inclusion of your possible mistakes given unconventional play is necessary. so boris, if you were going to play a perfect flop like this the way you did, you need to raise pf imo.

Barron

[lil feller]

This might make me sound like a complete goofball lagtard, but i've been trying to work on my river play.

What does everybody think of a river c/r fold to a 3 bet? What got there on the turn that we aren't in front of on the river, except for a set? Only a full house will 3bet, and all the two pair hands will call having no reason to put hero on an overpair.

As others have already stated the rest of the hand is a little goofy, but I think thats been discussed enough.

lf

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't raise pre-flop because I felt it may severely diminish any chance of check-raising on later streets. No doubt I gave up beaucoup equity by this decision. But I also felt I would win the pot more often by just calling pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your goal to maximize earn or minimize variance? Even if you are able to better "protect" your hand (debateable), people don't fold that many more hands that they wouldn't have already folded had you just raised PF and bet the flop. IMO.


Also, I think if you complete PF, you gotta do it knowing people are underestimating how strong you are, meaning you need to get more bets in. Preferably on the flop, since on the turn it's easy to get frozen up when people give you action (sorta like what happened here).

I hope you checked the river in intent of raising?

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
There's only one really bad player and the rest are passive nits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's just me, but this sounds like an awesome game.