Bonds first at bat this year....

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
And the reason he is "the best offensive player in the game is because.....................

HE [censored] CHEATS! HE'S CHEATED FOR A LONG TIME, AND IS PROBABLY STILL CHEATING!!!


[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
1992 27 PIT NL 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 39 8 127 69 .311 .456 .624 295
1993 28 SFG NL 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 29 12 126 79 .336 .458 .677 365
1994 29 SFG NL 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 29 9 74 43 .312 .426 .647 253

[/ QUOTE ]

[ThaSaltCracka]

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He's been winning MVPs and putting up numbers his entire career. Some day you will realize this. Like I said, for some reason you have some serious hate for him.

[/ QUOTE ]just so you know, he said that Shannon Stewart was better than Barry Bonds...no joke.

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's been winning MVPs and putting up numbers his entire career. Some day you will realize this. Like I said, for some reason you have some serious hate for him.

[/ QUOTE ]just so you know, he said that Shannon Stewart was better than Barry Bonds...no joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as we're talking about this Shannon Stewart, I'd agree.

[Edge34]

Me and MEBenhoe have been debating it...here's the main points that I could see.

First, I'll take back the retarded Shannon Stewart comment. There was a line of thinking I had behind it that I didn't explain, and apparently nobody would buy it anyways. Put a guy like Ichiro's name in my statement and nobody calls me a homer (and no, I'm not comparing Stewart and Ichiro). I used an example of a pretty darn good defensive outfielder (who happened to be the hometown left fielder, like Bonds in SF) who hasn't used 'roids to jack up his numbers. But thinking back to how I put it, go ahead, I'll take my mocking like a man. I deserve it, probably.

Now that that's out of the way...

Me: Bonds has almost certainly used illegal steroids to jack up his stats. IF he has done so, he's disrespected the game, every clean player in the league, and the fans. And as such, deserves precisely no respect from anybody. It tarnishes not only his steroid-induced stats, but those he made when he was a helluva player back when he played for Pittsburgh in the start of his career. If you're that damn good, why cheat? The fragility of his knee is another question I have, as to whether that's due to wear and tear from steroids or simply old age.

MEbenhoe: He's never been proven to use steroids, and because of this, hasn't used steroids. There's plenty of ways to explain what's happened to him, such as the use of legal supplements like creatine. Athletes like Andre Agassi and Lance Armstrong have held up remarkably well as they have gotten older, therefore the same is likely true without the help of pharmaceuticals for Mr. Bonds.

Now, I'll be the first to admit, much of my problem with Bonds comes from his attitude toward, well, basically everybody. The guy has gotten more defensive than anything since the whole steroid controversy started, and seems to think that the media is out to get him - he's never been afraid to play the race card, and there was that whole "you wanted to bring my family down, you got it" bit a little while back. The guy is a walking farce who seems to think he's the second coming of Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, and Ted Williams all rolled into one.

Think of it this way...if Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky decided to use steroids to hang on (and even blow up some stats) as their age grew higher and they lost a step or two, could you honestly hold the same level of respect for them as you do now?

Now, since I'm apparently the only person who won't slob Bonds's knob over a few dingers...FLAME ON!!!

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
Me: Bonds has almost certainly used illegal steroids to jack up his stats. IF he has done so, he's disrespected the game, every clean player in the league, and the fans.

MEbenhoe: He's never been proven to use steroids, and because of this, hasn't used steroids.

Now, I'll be the first to admit, much of my problem with Bonds comes from his attitude toward, well, basically everybody.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clipped the quote to get to the key points. First, dude, this is America. Innocent until proven guilty. I'd say he almost certainly hasn't used "illegal steroids". He may have, knowingly or unknowingly, used performance-enhancing drugs. But what are performance-enhancing drugs, really? If I take Advil after a hard workout so I can workout hard again that night or the next morning, isn't that a performance enhancing drug? If I play better with a little caffeine in me, how about that? If Babe Ruth thought he could focus a little better on a full stomach and some alcohol, how do we categorize that?

The bottom line is that you don't like his attitude. That's your choice. Me, I have a lot more respect for guys like Bonds and Allen Iverson who would rather be who they really are, as opposed to being who the general public would like them to be. If you'd rather root for a Kobe Bryant, who carefully crafts his public persona as a way to hide a dark side, that's up to you. I'll be cheering for Bonds, who loves baseball and his family, and doesn't think putting on a show for the media is important. So he gets a special oversized locker and massage chair? Hey, not only has he earned it, but if it helps him perform, go for it. Baseball is barely a team sport. It doesn't matter if they like each other. Heck, McNabb and Owens can succeed without liking each other in a sport that requires many more teamwork skills. Who cares if Jeff Kent or Andy Van Slyke dislike Bonds? It doesn't affect the effectiveness of either player.

I'm keeping it real. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] If you want to keep rooting for the phonies, I'm not going to stop you.

[Edge34]

Bulldog,

I'm not a fan of phonies, either. As a matter of fact, I love to watch AI ball and I like his attitude about life. But he's also a team player who gives his all when its important. Kobe, he's a douche, and I hate the fact that he's such a phony. Great baller, not a guy I want to cheer for. With Bonds, maybe he's just that much of an A-hole, but would it be THAT hard to at least be pleasant with the media? All this "you wanted to bring me and my family down" stuff is a load of garbage.

You mention things like Advil. Advil doesn't help your muscles grow. It can't help you run faster. It helps you heal. Caffeine is a stimulant, and you come down from it VERY quickly. With the Bambino, booze certainly can't HELP athletic performance...if anything, it HURT him. As a Bonds apologist, I'm sure you know this but just don't want to admit that there's a difference in Balco's products and Advil. If you can't tell that difference...well, you've lost more credibility than I have.

Fact of the matter is, this is baseball, this isn't a court where he could go to jail for the rest of his life is he's found guilty, and it doesn't have the same burden. I should've known better, maybe, posting a rant AGAINST CHEATING in a POKER forum. It helps that I don't like the guy, but at least I can respect a tool who doesn't cheat.

[Voltron87]

goddamn do i hate barry bonds

[Edge34]

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I'm really interested to know how anybody who pays the smallest amount of attention to baseball can look at this guy and not hope that the next pitcher he faces throws a 4-seamer right at his steroid-enlarged cranium.

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Change "steroid-enlarged cranium" to "knee" and I'll agree with you.

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And everybody's ignoring you. I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] being the target.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Edge, you may like this article .

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
Edge, you may like this article .

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying he shouldn't go to the Hall, especially because, its true, for NOW he apparently hasn't been tested positive for steroids. I'm just saying, I lose respect for cheaters, and every sign points towards him being one.

I'd LOVE to be proven wrong, because I'd hate to lose respect for a guy who's had a great career before he started using.