Play Along...... street by street - The FLOP

[Gomez22]

The original post can be found here

The general consensus seemed to just want to limp here, although one player advocated pushing. Since the majority says limp, we'll limp.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t1630)
UTG (t5535)
UTG+1 (t4905)
MP1 (t1190)
Hero (t1480)
CO (t1430)
Button (t1960)
SB (t1285)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. 2 folds, MP1 calls t100, Hero calls t100, 1 fold</font>, Button calls t100, 1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t450) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero ???



OK.... nice flop... we now have 1380 left in chips, a 450 pot, and the 2 players in front of us have checked..... now what are opinions and reasons from everyone? Does anyone think this is a situation where you want to build a pot, or do you want to try and keep the pot small? Either way, explain your reasons and how you will go about playing the hand now.

[fnurt]

I bet about T200 here. While it's too small a bet, if no one has anything they want to play with, it's as effective in picking up the pot as anything else.

The question is whether, on this draw-heavy board, you want to bet more to punish the draws. My personal sense is that it's hard to push out a big draw on the flop, and I'd prefer to drop the hammer on the turn. If you bet big here and get called, there are a lot of turn cards that will leave you with no idea whether you're still ahead, and it will cost you a lot of money to continue being aggressive. Keeping the pot small now leaves you lots of room to maneuver on the next street.

I would bet out 200 chips. I've got to think that I've got the best hand right now and the only person that's getting odds to call my bet would be a flush draw. (Is that right or do I have my pot odds wrong?)

[rockythecat99]

I don't understand something as of late that I've seen a lot in these forums. Everyone keeps advocating not to bet big on this draw heavy board because "too many bad cards will come on the turn that will ruin your hand". That is EXACTLY why you want to be big and make the draws pay.

Think about it this way. Everytime you make a big bet here like on this example of about 300-350 range it is incorrect for any draw to call. If they call GOOD that is what you want for your opponent to make a mistake. Yes sometimes they will draw out on you but in the LONG RUN this play is +EV. Stop being scared of being drawn out on. You will never get anywhere playing that way.

I bet 300-350 on this board. On a side note the only real threat is probably MP1 as BB has some random hand as far as you know.

[Hotrod0823]

I bet out about 400 and try to take it right there. I don't want to price the Flush/straight draws in and I feel confident that my hand is best. With a few limpers there is a good chance someone is playing Axs in hearts. Make them pay to see the turn. Likewise the guy holding QJx.

I don't see how you can check this through and give up a free card. Too many cards hurt you.

Hotrod

[pottie]

Should I read the original post? I bet 350.

The reason betting 200 here is a good idea is that if you bet more, a good draw may push into you, forcing you to make a decision for your chips as to whether your TPGK is good vs his possible draw/set/two pair/perhaps even better kicker. Betting 200 he is more inclined to call on the flop, and when he calls the chance of him completing his draw on the turn is much lower than the chance of him -not- completing it, and when you put the real pressure on him on the turn, he will be more inclined to give up on it. If his draw connects, you can get away from the hand much easier, and it was likely that if he (anyone) had a good draw they weren't going to give up on it either way, with a big bet from you inducing a push from them. A bet of 200 here will also take the pot down just as often as a somewhat higher bet if no one has anything worth continuing with. This is once again a spot where controlling the pot ends up making you more chips while keeping it easier for you to get away from the hand.

[zambonidrivr]

I am moving in here and I am not concerned with the 2 checks in front, or those behind as they raise preflop with ak. If second,underpair or flush draw wants to come along, that is fine as they are making a mathmatical mistake. too bad you checked and the next card was a heart, giving someone the nuts and giving another trips.

further, i am not worried about the 2 checks in front as they are fools for not betting out here with trips against multi-way action on a drawing board. thats just me.

i hate multi-way action, but there's a good chance you take this pot down right now and pick up 450 which is a nice addition to your stack. u are called here with trips, or ak... but i doubt your seeing that much here.

alright flame away


by the way... i hate betting 200 here and giving someone odds to draw against you. my goal in these situations is to take down the pot and move on. giving someone odds to draw against you is almost certain death in a mult-way pot.

[zambonidrivr]

thank you. put much more elogantly than i

Not if your intention is to hammer the pot down on the turn, which is much more likely to happen against drawers. Now you have won a bigger pot than you would have more often than not, and succeeded in getting the same information with a smaller bet as you would have with a bigger one, plus being able to get away from the hand much easier. I might actually bet 250-275 here, which is giving improper odds while keeping the pot smaller. 350-400 is too big of a hammer on the flop, and more likely to induce a push from a good draw than a hammer on the turn would be inducing them to fold.