JJ EP from session review

#1 11-24-2005, 04:16 AM

Interesting hand from session review

No reads, figured i was WA/WB on the turn. Should i be bet/folding this river?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

#2 11-24-2005, 04:45 AM

*grunch*

my curiosity leads me to play it the same. bet/fold would be the right track against a passive player though. Against an aggressive player you could still be ahead if he is prone to bluff. Against an unknown I would check/call and make a note if he bluffed with a busted flush-draw or K high or something.

Weatherhead03 · #3 11-24-2005, 04:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
bet/fold would be the right track against a passive player though. Against an aggressive player you could still be ahead if he is prone to bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking the same.

p@t@dds · #4 11-24-2005, 05:35 AM

I think you should bet out on the turn here. If "button" has an ace, he will most likely raise and you can dump your hand or call and then check/fold on the river if you don't improve. No need to give him a chance to catch a free card on the river if he doesn't have an Ace. Granted a 5 came on the river, but during the hand you have no idea what cards he is holding. If he has any King or Queen he could outdraw you by spiking one, he could be drawing to a flush or a gut-shot wheel, or worst of all he could have pocket 5's. A bet here, might get him to fold before that 5 pops up on the river. I think betting out on the turn will give you more info about his hand and if you plan to fold to a raise it will cost you less than check/calling to the river. That's just my opinion. Hope it helps.

jaxUp · #5 11-24-2005, 05:47 AM

you are not WA/WB. If villain is behind, he could have many outs. He could have a FD, OCs, gutshot, or any combination of those. When you are playing as if WA/WB, you want there to be very few (like < 3) outs for villain

bottomset · #6 11-24-2005, 05:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you are not WA/WB. If villain is behind, he could have many outs. He could have a FD, OCs, gutshot, or any combination of those. When you are playing as if WA/WB, you want there to be very few (like < 3) outs for villain

[/ QUOTE ]

yep WA/WB basically only applies to HU where you or your opponent have 0-3outs when behind, and its roughly equally likely(if you are WB a large % you fold) if you are WA a large % you can consider lines that try and get a lot of bets in

adsman · #7 11-24-2005, 06:02 AM

The Ace on the turn makes it more likely villian doesn't have one. Checkraising the turn costs the same as going to showdown. If he doesn't have the Ace it will be very hard for him to call. If he has a lot of outs to beat you on the river this would be a coup. If you are ahead and he calls you down then you win more. If he 3 bets the turn then you can easily fold. By just check-calling it down you're winning less when you're ahead and giving him the opportunity to hit a King or a Queen and draw out on you.

SoftcoreRevolt · #8 11-24-2005, 06:08 AM

If you are going to bet the flop, you have far more reason to bet the turn.

#9 11-24-2005, 06:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you are not WA/WB. If villain is behind, he could have many outs. He could have a FD, OCs, gutshot, or any combination of those. When you are playing as if WA/WB, you want there to be very few (like < 3) outs for villain

[/ QUOTE ]

ah yep this was what i thought the situation was.

i figured i was up against an 8 or a lower PP with 2 outs, or against an ace.

i didnt consider other possibilities

#10 11-24-2005, 08:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Checkraising the turn costs the same as going to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I don't get that. We are OOP. So if we check/raise him on the turn, we need to be sure he will check behind on the river to pay the same # of BBs as check/calling him down. Or do you compare that to check/calling the turn and bet/calling the river? I'm not sure what lines you are comparing.