KK vs a loose player 30/60

Mig · #1 12-12-2005, 05:55 PM

Ok that's the kind of hand I have a hard time dealing with. I'm wondering if when you have a doubt, do you back up and just call down ?

I have K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG. I raise. Loose/Agg player (30%VPIP/15% pfr) reraise on the button. It's my second orbit and never played vs him so I don't have much of a read there. 30/60 PP full ring. I cap.

The flop is:
[ 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
I bet, he raises, I 3 bet and he caps.
Now, most agressive players like him would do the same with AKs/QQ/AA ....

The turn is a 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I donk...

How far am I willing to go ? I don't want to give a free card to JJ/QQ and flush draw and at the same time, I don't want to payoff AA... Should I just call down from here to anymore agression ?

I feel it's horribly standard. Thanks for any feedback.

Fianchetto · #2 12-12-2005, 05:59 PM

Yes, if I get raised on the turn I am probably calling down from there unless I have seen him overplay a pocket pair before. If that is the case, I may give more action.

An alternative is to call the flop raise, and check raise him on the turn, but it really sucks if they check behind. An aggressive player will usually follow through with a bet though. I think you played the hand fine so far.

Enon · #3 12-12-2005, 07:53 PM

Did you give consideration to calling his turn raise and then donking a blank river?

KramerTM · #4 12-12-2005, 08:20 PM

I think it was imperative that you lead the turn again, even though Villain capped the flop. You absolutely cannot give a free card to AKs here. If he raises, plan on calling down (check/calling the river no matter what comes, though I can't see you winning if the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] falls).

KramerTM · #5 12-12-2005, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
An alternative is to call the flop raise, and check raise him on the turn, but it really sucks if they check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is OK too, but I tend not to do this on a suited flop. It's a distater when it gets checked behind.

Thoughts: There is 1 way he has A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 ways he has QQ, and 6 ways he has AA. Discounting the likelihood of QQ purely based on how strongly he plays it, it's almost 50/50 you're beat here. Therefore, I am in favor of calling down and putting in no extra bets.

KramerTM · #6 12-12-2005, 08:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did you give consideration to calling his turn raise and then donking a blank river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like calling the turn raise. Not sure I would donk a blank river. I'd rather give the whiffed A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] a chance to bluff while simultaneously only losing 1 bet to AA. I still think you win a value bet when you check to QQ anyhow.

Mig · #7 12-12-2005, 09:41 PM

I think the same here. I think my line is good here. I don'T think QQ play this hand that strong tho. AKs should, AA should but not sure any non-maniac people play it that strong...

golferbrent · #8 12-12-2005, 11:56 PM

Did you consider the player in question here is a 30/15 LAG? I think his range is much wider then the range you have provided. He could play A-Js, A-Qs, J-J, and maybe even 10-10 this way as well, he is a 30/15 player and that is borderline manic.

golferbrent · #9 12-12-2005, 11:58 PM

For a 30/15 LAG I think his range is much wider then the range you have provided. He could also play A-Js, A-Qs, J-J, and maybe even 10-10 this way as well. With this range included, I think it is imperative that you donk the turn as you did and then call down if you get raised. So far so good, well played... hope it turned out good.