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  #1  
Old 08-19-2005, 03:17 PM
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Default How does bets being 2-5 change the game?

There is a casino near here that does a 2-5 - Brantford, I think.

How does that change the nature of play pre- and post-flop?
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2005, 03:33 PM
sy_or_bust sy_or_bust is offline
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Default Re: How does bets being 2-5 change the game?

This should be obvious.

Slowplaying is more often correct, implied odds are better, etc. Certainly not a bad structure for a good player.
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2005, 03:35 PM
damaniac damaniac is offline
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Default Re: How does bets being 2-5 change the game?

Do you mean 2/5 spread (you can bet anywhere from 2-5 on any round), or preflop/flop at 2, turn/river at 5?

If it is the latter, it should be pretty intuitive. A normal game would go 2/4, so your implied odds are a little better. You might play suited connectors a bit earlier or in a shorter pot than normal, ditto with suited aces. Also, you can chase gutshots and bottom pair/overcard draws a little lighter since you will get paid a little better when you hit.
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:10 PM
Xhad Xhad is offline
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Default Re: How does bets being 2-5 change the game?

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you can chase gutshots and bottom pair/overcard draws a little lighter since you will get paid a little better when you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what you said is correct, but this part is exactly backwards; bets made on the flop will usually be for the maximum bet*, which is the same thing you can bet on later streets. Meanwhile, in a limit game, the bet you have to call on the flop will be half what you can bet if you hit.

For a concrete example: If someone bets $5 into you on the flop and you're getting debatable odds, in a 2-5 spread game you can only bet five if you hit, while in a 5-10 limit game you can bet 10 on the turn if you hit, so you should be more inclined to call in the limit game.

*If this assumption is wrong and people are stupidly betting $2 into a $10 pot on the flop, then what you are saying is actually correct.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2005, 04:31 PM
Xhad Xhad is offline
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Default Re: How does bets being 2-5 change the game?

(NOTE: The B&M casinos I play in offer almost exclusively spread games ranging from 2-6 to 2-10, so I've done a lot of thinking about these games compared to most limit players)

A note on bet size: Once the pot gets to 2x the max bet size, almost always bet the max unless your opponents are fish who will call a $3 "I HAVE QUADS" bet no matter how transparent it is.

I'll go from the river backwards because there is less difference in the later streets:

Turn, River: Practically no difference whatsoever. If there's been betting at all the pot should be big enough that you should be betting the max anyway, so treat it just like a limit game.

There is one thing about the turn to notice, however: some fish have a pattern where they tend to call too much on the flop, but then fold on the turn if they don't pick anything up. I used to think this has to do with bet size, but trust me, some fish still do this even in spread limit and it's a good thing to know when you manage to get shorthanded with a whiffed AK.

Flop: Be more wary of "free card" plays, since bet sizes don't change. Even if you try a ploy of making a less-than-maximum raise to scare your opponent, they might decide to slam you back with a max raise (example, opponent bets $2, you make it $4, your opponent makes it $9) Realize that any call you decide to make on the flop will probably result in going to the river. Realize you aren't getting as good odds on your bluffs and semibluffs in unraised pots because the pot size in relation to a credible bet is usually smaller.

Preflop: Play suited connectors 45+ small pairs, and any two broadways in any position in all but the most aggressive games. Realize that limp-reraises with giant hands (AA-QQ and AKs) are more lucrative when they work and more disastrous when they fail; more lucrative because you can sometimes get a sequence of limp, limp, limp, raise to $4, call, call, reraise to $9..., more disastrous because when someone calls $2 to see a flop where they can later bet $5 or more on all streets, they're getting great implied odds if you don't know when to lay down your overpair. Personally I believe in just raising KQs and JJ to begin with.

Automatically call one raise back to you if you've limped if it's a min-raise. Don't call bigger raises unsuited bad broadways at all, and don't call with drawing hands without first figuring out if your odds are favorable (generally three or four other people need to call if it's a max raise).

Don't always raise a bunch of limpers with suited broadways. In SSH and HEFAP there is discussion about bloating the pot with mediocre hands; this effect is greater in spread limit because the bets in relation to the size of the pot are bigger, giving you worse odds on your semi-bluffs and your weak draws.

Put another way, you don't mind bloating the pot with ATs because you will usually have two overcards and a three-flush, which is enough excuse to call in a six-handed pot. In spread, however, this isn't necessarily the case; if the pot is only $10 and it's $5 to you, it's not that hard to fold in this spot.

Similarly, don't ever raise preflop with hands like 55 or JTs in the big blind except in the wildest of games; even some fish fold to a max raise after limping (making your odds on your raise worse), and making small raises is just begging to be limp-reraised (even bad players do it sometimes; I was once LRR'd out of the big blind by ATo)

General: Figure out on which streets your opponents play too loose and take advantage of it. If there is no such street (weak-tights) then quit the game, as the blinds are tiny and the rake is huge. If your opponents are playing too loose preflop, raise preflop more (cold-calling is more expensive here than in limit), if they're playing too loose postflop and ignoring pot odds, consider preflop raising less but be more aggressive postflop if you hit (getting people to call gutshots getting 2-1 is priceless).
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2005, 04:49 PM
Xhad Xhad is offline
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Default More stuff about playing preflop

Reraising: Some reraises that are automatic in limit aren't in spread, mainly because:

-A reraise just after a raise will usually get it heads-up even in loose games
-Sometimes your opponents will cold-call incorrectly if you call, but correctly fold if you reraise

So don't always reraise with AKo or AJs if most other people are already out of the pot, especially if the raiser is tight. On the other hand, if you think he might be out of line or on tilt, an isolation raise with 88 or AJo is more likely to succeed than it is in limit.

Hand requirements: postflop position matters when deciding whether to call preflop. The specific hands I said to play in any position, I said to do so because they tend to make hands that play well postflop. Don't play K3s or A2s UTG even with the implied odds you're getting because they put you in too many ugly spots (unless your opponents are super-straightforward). Again, in limit, in this situation a bet is often 1/6th or less of the pot, in spread it will usually be around half, an ugly situation to be in when the flop is A 9 6 and you act first with TPNK and a backdoor flush draw. In late position, however, any suited ace or king is playable, and I would also add suited three-gaps J7s+, Suited 2-gaps 69s+, suited one-gaps 68s+, 34+, 23+ and T9o. Of course you should fold these to any significant raise, another reason you don't play them early position.

I call any two in the small blind if it's not raised, calling $1 for a $10 pot and a chance to make $5 bets on every street thereafter is just ridiculous even with complete trash and the worst position. Against weak opponents I also call hands as bad as 46s and 97o on the button; the position and implied odds after the flop mean a lot, and they're easy to get away from when they "sort of" hit the flop and there's action in front of you.
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2005, 04:51 PM
Xhad Xhad is offline
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Default Disregard that post

Just noticed you said "latter", sorry I misread your post, edit time has passed.
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2005, 06:59 PM
damaniac damaniac is offline
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Default Re: How does bets being 2-5 change the game?

I was talking about 2 dollar bets preflop/flop and 5 on the turn/river, not a spread limit game. Obviously your advice is correct that implied odds are worse in a spread limit game from the flop on (but juicier preflop in an unraised pot).
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