outplaying myself

[jkamowitz]

Monday Foxoods 20/40. Game is reasonably good with some uber-fish and a lot of limp action and people calling cold.

5 people limp Hero is button with 88 and limps as well. . .wahoo cheap flop.

SB, a solid winning player raises everyone calls.

A25 flop SB leads everyone folds to hero.
Hero raises. . ..
Sb groans and calls.

Turn 7
SB leads
Hero raises
SB 3-bets
Hero folds

Anyone like this? or is this just really stupid. I figurered he must have AA or AK to do this. If he has KK, QQ he can't possibly call here. But after thinking about it, I dont'know if he's even raising QQ into 6 limpers.

[DMBFan23]

gr-owned.

man, I can't believe I typed that. then, I can't beleive I hit submit.

[jason_t]

Why didn't you just fold the flop?

[jkamowitz]

eh, I know just feeling itchy especially when SB leads into a 11 sb pot andd everyone folds, felt like taking a shot and starting some crap. stupid, i know

[onegymrat]

I actually like your play on the flop. The pot is big and you made a play for it. Once you decide to do so (rather than just simply folding to his flop bet), you have to play it out.

It's rather odd that he bet into you on the turn rather than 3-betting your flop raise, as if to deny you a free card. Was there a two-flush on the flop? Anyhoo, fold to his turn bet.

[imashyboi]

Flop - Rasing and calling here is about the same I think. I don't see SB leading out here with less than a big A or PP. He raised in the SB after everyone limped meaning he has a monster hand or just trying to get cute which is unlikely. You have 2 outs at best. I'm not sure if he'll fold anything here even with a raise unless he has total garbage.

Turn - Easy fold. He's representing his hand strongly which indicates the A, no need to raise here to double check when he's practically showing you his hand.

[CardSharpCook]

If I am in the SB, this would mean that I have an ace. Obviously not a big ace. It is just silly to lead into a field of limpers without one. Axs is too common and many playes still play any ace at this level. Given that it will take 5SBs to call down, and you will win a 16SBs, I don't think he doesn't have an ace enough to call down. Raising the flop is silly.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
wahoo cheap flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
For you or for them? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

That flop raise is pretty bad. That turn play seems even worse.

[andyfox]

This play works better, somewhat paradoxically in my experience, when the other guy has 3-bet preflop, increasing the chances of him having a big pocket pair so that the ace is more likely to miss him. It also works better, again somewhat paradoxically, when your opponent has position on you. A raise from behind when he bets can be seen as a free card play, whereas a check-raise out of position is more likely to be seen as a I-check-to-the-raiser (or 3-bettor)-because-he's-surely-going-to-bet-any-flop-but-I-caught-an-ace bet.

The success of this play also depends on exactly how "solid" opponent is and how opponent views you. My last session, I open-raised with pocket 9s and an opponent 3-bet. Flop came A-4-3 which, absent a 9 on the flop, was perfect for me. I checked, she bet, I check-raised, and she proudly folded pocket kings face up. I "had" to have an ace and she won't chase. Against other opponents, I could put a WMD on the table and they'll be calling down, some because they're fishy, others because they're capable of thinking up a few levels.

That groan when you raised would send up an alarm to me. A groan or head-shake on one street followed by a bet on the following streets often mean they want you to raise.

[jkamowitz]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I was simply experimenting and had been thinking of the bet-fold line a lot and was hoping maaaybe that was what he was thinking as well. . obviously. . no good. Anyways thanks for the responses.