Willing to go broke?

[citanul]

your question is really terribly posed, and sort of entirely information free, but i'm trying to figure out if you pulled it straight from supersystem 2 or not. you make a decision on your opponent's cards, and then you play. if you don't think it's possible anyone has a 44 or JJ enough of the time, you call.

why is there a question every 2 days about "would you fold KK on the first day of the wsop" or someting like that?

in this situation, it's unlikely either 44 or JJ would have played the hand like that, but if there's people left ot act behind you, any of them could easily have 44 in the unraised pot.

so my question is, in what way is this question *remarkably* different from the "it's the first hand of the wsop and you're dealt KK in the bb. folded to the sb, who pushes, what do you do?" answer, it's really not. don't post stupid crap.

citanul

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
Call. My philosophy is you're there to place first, so going out 350th or 117th doesn't make much of a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with the philosophy or decision, but I question the analysis. It doesn't make sense to CALL what I assume to be an enormous overbet without first determining whether you think you are ahead in the hand. I would call because I would think it quite likely that my set was a strong favorite. You can't stick with level I thinking and say "I got a set, I have to play it, because if I don't, what else would I be willing to call with?" Clearly Rushmore feels that there will very likely be better opportunities to risk chips on other hands. I'm sure he thinks there is a decent chance he has the best hand, but it's not worth playing considering the risk. You can't win a tournament early, but you can lose it mentality. This thought process is not inconsistent with playing for first place.

[drewjustdrew]

After my last reply it dawned on me...wrong forum.

[Tevyee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call. My philosophy is you're there to place first, so going out 350th or 117th doesn't make much of a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with the philosophy or decision, but I question the analysis. It doesn't make sense to CALL what I assume to be an enormous overbet without first determining whether you think you are ahead in the hand. I would call because I would think it quite likely that my set was a strong favorite. You can't stick with level I thinking and say "I got a set, I have to play it, because if I don't, what else would I be willing to call with?" Clearly Rushmore feels that there will very likely be better opportunities to risk chips on other hands. I'm sure he thinks there is a decent chance he has the best hand, but it's not worth playing considering the risk. You can't win a tournament early, but you can lose it mentality. This thought process is not inconsistent with playing for first place.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh no, that's not what I meant to be interpreted. I always take the situation into greater context and try to narrow down the range of hands of my opponents. In that specific situation, with the little information available [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img], I would call with my set of 2's. If I know from my gut, I'm not up against a higher set I call instantly. Now having a situation like this come up would be rare if not ludacris. Players tend to play much more conservatively early in tournaments (especially ones with higher buy-ins) and pushing all-in on such a small pot is just asinine. So, my call is based just on that specific situation, I'm sure there would be places I would certainly fold that same hand if the situation dictated it.

[GFunk911]

[ QUOTE ]
well, i agree and disagree with you. i think its important to play for first place in tournaments that you can properly bankroll, but in tournaments where the money is significant to me i will definitely take less risks to hang in there and bump my payout. i think its +EV to play to win in tournaments, but the variance for me is -EV. 40k 50/100 times is better than 300k 1/100 times for me, because adding that amount of money to my bankroll should propel me into higher limits and more $/hr.

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Do you mean 40k 5/100 times? Also could you clarify what you mean by EV, since you use it in numerous different ways throughout the same paragraph.

[Michael C.]

I would call and most of the time sweep in the pot. I can't imagine anyone playing JJ that stupidly, so the only hand to fear is 44. If they put in all of their money in the hope someone had 22 or an overpair and would call them, as opposed to milking in more chips, more power to them. So what could someone have to make a bet like that? Hard to say since it's so out there. But it smells like two pair or an overpair to me.

[3rdEye]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say it's a BIG WPT tourney. The blinds are 25-50 and a total of 6 people call. You have pocket 2's and no read on anyone because the tourney basically just started. The flop is J-4-2. Someone goes all-in before you and has you covered.

What do you do and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care what anyone says, ANYONE AND EVERYONE who has any sense about himself calls here, period.

There is nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise, unless the guy who pushes ONLY scratches his balls during a hand when he has top set, and that he scratched his balls before he pushed.

Seriously, when is it not disgustingly weak-tight to fold a set in such a situation?

[Tevyee]

This thread is stupid. I'm not posting in it anymore!

[A_C_Slater]

I would fold if my life was on the line and I had to win the tourney or die. But there will always be another tournament. Call.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
no read on anyone because the tourney basically just started.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's impossible for this scenario to come up without having any form of a significant read. Often you can just look at a person and tell if he is intelligent or not. You can often tell if he is aggressive or passive. This is before the cards are even dealt. When you get to see him play this hand, you get even more information. I'm not saying that his cards will be face up, but you should be able to give a somewhat ballpark range as to how often he will have a set.