TT - lots of action - lots of players.

[27offsooot]

OK, what hands are u three betting out of the bb in this situation vs. a good opponent? Start from there. I understand u have equity vs. the two idiots for a cap, but think about BB's hand range. OOP, my range for three betting is something like 1010+, AK, maybe AQs. Is it common for people to three bet much less after a limper raiser, cold-caller? An overcard is going to flop a crap load of the time, u will end up setting urself to spew later on if u cap, bet the flop. I prefer leaving the initiative with bb, waiting for a flop and then raising some, folding some and calling a few. The hand i think becomes much easier to play by calling.

In reality, i would cap JJ here. But i still think it's closer than most do.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
However, the hand is *much* easier to play postflop if we do not cap. On the other hand, I agree that we are giving up so much preflop equity by not capping, that in this scenario it will be difficult to make it up postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the time (nor know how to use) for pokerstove. But I would guess that if BB has a range similar to the one I indicated and there is at least one other overcard held by the two idiots who will call a flop bet if it is all unders anyhow, I don't think ur equity is much higher than 25%. If it was a LAGTARD in bb, if UTG folded, or CO was tight and could find a dumb fold to two more or would fold flops that don't hit, i can see a cap being better. In this situation, i think that capping is a mistake.

By the way, i think the turn not being capped deserves some more attention. I usually hate PF decisions, but those thinking the cap is an easy decision i think are v. wrong.

Edit - i could see AKd, or AA or AKo even three betting turn. Plus u have other player stuck with obviously a worse hand.

[stigmata]

We are getting decent amount of equity from the two "awful" players. Lets say they limp 50%, cold-call 25%, and the decent player re-raises top 10%:


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 16.9423 % 16.87% 00.08% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
Hand 2: 31.9184 % 31.58% 00.33% { TcTs }
Hand 3: 18.3098 % 17.85% 00.46% { 66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A8o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 4: 32.8295 % 32.11% 00.72% { 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }

However, I could be convinced to just call preflop, and I probably do a fair % of the time. The hand is a damn sight easier to play that way.


[ QUOTE ]
I don't have the time (nor know how to use) for pokerstove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just download and use it man, it couldn't be easier. It does help in getting a sense of certain situations.

[cockandbull]

BB had KK, co had something silly like J7 and UTG had Q3

[27offsooot]

I think ur range for hand 4 is too wide. I listed AQo+, 1010+, but i could be convinced to widen it slightly, but i think Q10s, K10s and a few others are never three betting from a decent bb. I could accept 99+, AJs+, KQs, and maybe the offsuit counterparts.

[stigmata]

Yeah sorry i just did it real quick without paying too much attention...sorry.... If we tighten him up our euqity drops to 30%, his shoots up to 35%

[RunDownHouse]

Yeah, I'd put KQs and some other big suited aces in his wheelhouse. Probably not 99, though.

In any case, against that range, we've got more than enough equity to cap, especially if you consider you can get away from bad flops very easily, and even not-so-bad flops you'll get to showdown relatively cheaply.

[27offsooot]

Yeah, i figured ours is above 25, but i though bb would be higher than ours. Thanks for doing it. Alot of flops will cause our hand to be crap on the flop. We can make the donks make more -EV decisions by keeping the pot small and letting BB keep the initiative. Blah, blah, blah. You've been at least reasonable about assessing this, Stigmata, I was just amazed others thought this was an easy cap especially when they will autobet virtually any flop (other than like AKQ) when checked to.

[RunDownHouse]

Stigmata, care to run that stove again with the range including down to KQs if Hero has JJ? I'd do it, but can't at work.

[27offsooot]

Flop comes Q54r, U cap, autobet when checked to right? Same flop, bb leads, UTG calls, where are u now? We're not even talking about the real nasty flops.