Roy Cooke article in Card Player is wrong.

[DeathDonkey]

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increasing the ev per hand played and thus reducing their fluctuations and required bankroll.

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You might increase the average EV per hand played by cutting out some of the marginally profitable ones, but the tradeoff you make is decreasing your total EV. Put another way, if playing QJs under the gun is marginally profitable, then by folding it you are lowering your total expected $$ won and probably lowering your variance. But if you reduce your total EV by too much, then your variance will increase anyway, because you will be a more marginal winner - Nate the Great had some very good posts on this subject if I remember correctly.

-DeathDonkey

[pzhon]

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So, if someone decided to give 30 good players $200 each to play a table of $10-$20 each for him for the next four hours, that would be a fairly good low-risk idea to make a quick $5,000 or so?

We should form a mutual society and take turns in reaping such a cash bonus for one member every week.

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The basic idea is sound. The ability to play higher stakes with a shared bankroll is one reason it is so powerful to have a team of card counters in blackjack (even without the team tactics). This has also been done successfully in other forms of advantage gambling from sports betting to backgammon to the stock market.

In practice, there are a few problems.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] It's hard to identify the players who are actually winning on average rather than just claiming to win or on a hot streak.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] People might not play as well when they are playing with someone else's money.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Someone who is an established winner for a level usually has built up his own bankroll, and doesn't need to play on a team.

[ChuckyB]

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How many hands and how quickly you play them has 0, nada, nothing, nill to do with bankroll requirements.


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I would think except if you're going on tilt and peeing away money. More hands in the same amount of time = bigger losses.

[Nick-Zack]

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I've played probably 500,000 hands of online poker from $1-$2 to $5-$10 and have not deviated down more than 150 BB at any point.


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You must play alot better than most of us. I have been down 150BB over the course of 1 day - 450BB before the bleeding stopped at the end of 11 days.

[Theodore Donald Kiravatsos]

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Tipping and jack pot drop have to increase variance. That's just a fact.

Especially at the $1-$2 to $5-10 level.

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This is the first time ever for me to say the magic words...

As rake increases from the normal, to the high, to the unfair, to the unrealistic, to the insanely high (picture a 1-2 game with a million dollar rake no matter the pot size, and a "no flop-no drop" rule in effect), increasing the rake will DECREASE your variance.

"Do you see why?"

[Zetack]

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Obviously, from the responses, what I thought was wrong.

I'm not a multi-tabler, and, being a hobby player, I have never had to worry about my bankroll, so I haven't thought too much about the br issue. (That's my excuse for my ignorance on this topic.)

However, from an academic pov I am still having difficulty getting my head round it.

So, if someone decided to give 30 good players $200 each to play a table of $10-$20 each for him for the next four hours, that would be a fairly good low-risk idea to make a quick $5,000 or so?

We should form a mutual society and take turns in reaping such a cash bonus for one member every week.

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Mike, other people have made the point, but in case you are still having trouble getting your head around it think of it like this:

If we say 300BB is an appropriate bankroll (personally, if you're playing at any stakes where you can't easily go back into your pocket to replenish your bankroll I like more than 300 BB) then we all agree that you can play a single table on that three hundred BBs.

So you could play one table for, say, twelve hours on your 300 BB roll if you wanted.

Suppose instead that you sat down and played four tables for three hours. The next day you again just play one table for 12 hours straight. Can you see that there is absolutely no difference in bankroll required for these two activities?


Well what if you lost 75 BB on each of your four tables--you'd be broke! If you were only playing one table you'd just be down 75 BB's right? Well, no. Remember you're playing your one table for 12 hours.

Multi-tabling Losing 75 BB per table means you're losing 75 BB's per three hour block on each table. Its the same as losing 75 BB's per three hour block for all four of the three hour blocks in your 12 hour one table session.

Or put it this way, if you assume 50 hands per hour per table, 4 tabling you get 200 hands an hour or six hundred hands in our hypothetical above. Playing 12 hours of one table also gets you 600 hands. A 300 hundred BB loss in 600 hands is a pretty damn big hit, but regardless, the risk of that happening over 600 hands is exactly the same whether you play your 600 hands in three hours (by multi-tabling) or over 12 hours (by single tabling).

So an adequate bankroll does not change because your number of tables goes up (all things being equal)

Does that help at all?



-Zetack

[pudley4]

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I've played probably 500,000 hands of online poker from $1-$2 to $5-$10 and have not deviated down more than 150 BB at any point.


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You must play alot better than most of us. I have been down 150BB over the course of 1 day - 450BB before the bleeding stopped at the end of 11 days.

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But he doesn't, if he's routinely folding QJs/AJ/KTs UTG.

[punter11235]

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Tipping and jack pot drop have to increase variance. That's just a fact.


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LOL. Not if youre giving the tips of the same size in the same situations but if you get fancy and for example give no tips sometimes but tipping huge other days and do it at random then yes, variance will increase

[Rudbaeck]

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Mucking QJs/AJ/KTs under the gun is routine now.

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30% WTSD

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You fold alot of money.