1/2 NL Live Deep Stacked

[mackthefork]

I agree the bet is too big, but you really think he folds the 2nd nuts? I mean this is like hero potting it again then folding to a reraise because he sees there are 3 hands out there that beat him, a little fanciful in my opinion, sometimes we give people too much credit.

Mack

[Registrationtoo]

some of you guys must not play 1/2. the river bet is fine. i coudl easily see worse hands calling you in my experiences.

[Mempho]

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I agree the bet is too big, but you really think he folds the 2nd nuts? I mean this is like hero potting it again then folding to a reraise because he sees there are 3 hands out there that beat him, a little fanciful in my opinion, sometimes we give people too much credit.

Mack

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I agree...even if the river bet is just flat out wrong even though I expected to get called by many other flushes (meh, it could be), the actual river bet itself is completely independant of the results. I feel fairly certain that the result is the same no matter what. It is going to be extremely difficult to get away from this hand because, as I said, this guy's hand range is, IMO, much wider than a str8 flush. I would expect this guy to raise a pot-sized bet with any flush from how he played. Obviously, I could flat call, but why would I not raise that range? It's one thing to have a 4-card straight flush on the board and quite another to require a combination.

If someone would lay this down, I'd like to play with them because they'd be easily exploitable. Although different people have different styles and would have played the river differently, I don't think anyone on this board doesn't get stacked here. The guy is drawing to 4 outs when you pot it and only one of them breaks you. Any of 6 cards and you're a favorite to break him. This hand was so nasty because of the fact that I had almost no way out and we were both super deep.

[Mempho]

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some of you guys must not play 1/2. the river bet is fine. i coudl easily see worse hands calling you in my experiences.

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That's the thing. 1/2 live and online are completely different animals. I have had huge bets called many times by hands that I wouldn't think could call $10. If you're not willing to shove money out there because you'd rather milk them than make a bet that, in your estimation, can't get called, you are losing a lot of value. These guys want to call and they will in many situations. I see a lot of otherwise good players make these milk bets and its just a version of FPS. You're playing 2 levels above your opponent instead of 1. In poker, you always want to be just 1 level above your opponent. If his IQ is 105, don't play him like his is 140.

Good point, they'll call with a non-flush queen high much of the time. Thank God for fish.

I think OP played this hand ok. He had a read on the other player as a very loose agressive type who had a lower flush and they'd been going back and forth in a pissing contest. Good place to push as his opponents frustration might make him call with a weaker flush. For him to EXPECT the other guy to have a straight flush is bad poker it seems to me. You cant expect the hand of doom to come crushing you from the sky at every moment.
Expecting your set to lose to a bigger set, expecting the other guy to have 4 of a kind when you have the full house.
Come on, thats just ridiculous.
Sometimes you will lose these hands unfortunately and all of these players who act as if they could lay it down are full of crap, IMO.

[PokerFink]

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Betting this high is silly. Queen High flush certainly doesn't call $1200, but might call $100 or $200. Same with Jack high on down.

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LOL. Do you play 1/2nl live?

I've seen people make MUCH worse calls than calling a huge overbet with a 2nd nut flush.

Try: $150 dollar pot, a $600 raise all-in on the river, called by a low straight on a board that has three spades AND is paired.

I play the same games (live) and totally understand where you're coming from.

Just recently at the 2/5 NL at Paris the two deep stacks SB ($1500) and BB ($2700) got involved in a hand that loooked like this;

Everyone folds to SB who completes to $5

BB checks

Flop 2c-9d-10h

Check - Check

Turn 5c

Check - Check

River 6c

SB - All in (Ac8c)

BB - Insta Call (Kc7c)

FWIW...i was not one of the players involved in the hand.

[Mempho]

Happens all the time live. People who play strictly online have little idea how soft a live game of a corresponding limit can be. Live pros get a lot less hands, but they play some enourmous donks, too.