On Folding the River

[Jake (The Snake)]

Hey Deranged,

This is a concept that is also at play when Hero is in position with a decent hand and villain randomly donks the river. Since he usually has either a really good hand or a complete bluff, there is often not much reason to raise. Maybe an example?

By the way, I can't remember who it was, but somebody used to talk about this concept quite a bit (I think maybe Joe Tall?). Anyway, it's something that I think is quite applicable to many river decisions.

Good post.

[hobbsmann]

Knowing what to do on rivers like this is trait I've picked up from playing a lot of 6 max. So often if I have a hand with any kind of showdown value (the above hand is a great example) and there is an obvious draw that doesn't get there on the river AND my hand is fairly weak, checking with the intention of calling a bet is often the best play.

Value betting this river is most definately wrong as villain's range of calling hands is going to be ahead of us, but by checking we allow the villain to bluff with a wide range thus putting ourselves in a EV+ situation. You should be less inclined to check to induce a bluff against a horrible player as they will call with worse hands and you should be ready to check/fold against a solid player who will not bluff/value bet with worse hands.

Very nice post and thoughts Deranged. Interesting theory and something I will try to keep in mind as I play.

[WillMagic]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Deranged,

This is a concept that is also at play when Hero is in position with a decent hand and villain randomly donks the river. Since he usually has either a really good hand or a complete bluff, there is often not much reason to raise. Maybe an example?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny...I think of it at another level entirely. Most players think like you do and are really, reluctant to raise river donks, but entirely happy to call them with as ace-high, because they see them as bluffs/nuts. So often I find myself bet/folding random rivers OOP into people with weak pairs, when I think their range is something like AK-AJ unimproved and decent top pair/mid pp hands. It doesn't even matter that they've had the lead the whole way.

Will

[Jake (The Snake)]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't remember who it was, but somebody used to talk about this concept quite a bit (I think maybe Joe Tall?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just remembered it was Josh. (sthief09).