Do you put your life on the line with this.

daveymck · #1 09-01-2004, 02:29 PM

Party 20 NL last night down to last 110 money starts at 95 obviously chip position I am in looking for final table.

I think what cost me this was that I hesitated on the flop in my mind I felt pushing was the play but wimped out and didnt.

I know I played it bad but should I have gone in first here on the flop and put the onus on him or should I have played it how I did but laydown to the all in raise.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t14830)
BB (t3476)
UTG (t3148)
UTG+1 (t10169)
MP1 (t3165)
MP2 (t13410)
MP3 (t9695)
CO (t6000)
Hero (t13172)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to t1800, SB calls t1500, BB folds.

Flop: (t4200) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t3000, SB raises to t13030 (All-In), Hero calls t8372 (All-In).

Turn: (t28602) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t28602) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t28602
Main Pot: t26944 (t26944), between SB and Hero. > Pot won by SB (t26944).
Pot 2: t1658 (t1658), returned to SB.

Results in white below: 
SB shows Kc Jd (two pair, tens and fives).
Hero shows 6s 4s (two pair, tens and fives).
Outcome: SB wins t28602.

ismisus · #2 09-01-2004, 02:45 PM

You made the right call if you knew he had two overcards. You were 2-1 favorite. You're investing 8k to win 27k, enormous odds. Chances of him having a full house, higher flush draw, trips are slim.

Your mistake was in not pushing all in with your draw. If you were going to call an all-in anyways, might as well push. Unless you want to slowplay your possible 2/1 advantage, but I don't think you want to do that, if you can take that pot right there.

fnurt · #3 09-01-2004, 02:56 PM

It isn't obvious whether or not you were supposed to play this hand in the first place. I don't think any of us can answer that, because it really depends on how the blinds had been playing. If they were reasonably tight, there's nothing wrong with trying to pick up the blinds here.

On the flop, I think the determining factor is that you have a better than average stack here (you do, right?) and so you ought to be more inclined to pick up a small pot rather than gamble on a double-up. If you had a small stack, you rate to be a solid favorite on this flop, so I wouldn't mind playing it the way you did and hoping to induce him to put all his chips in. But given the actual size of your stack, I think it would have been better to push the flop.

fnord_too · #4 09-01-2004, 03:23 PM

How aware is your opponent? If he is smart enough to know when you are pot committed, I would bet enough on the flop to pot commit myself. If not, I may push on the flop.

Yes, I think I put my tourney life on the line with a straight flush draw here. The problem is the flop bet size, and I don't know the right answer. A reasonable bet leaves the possibility in your opponents mind that he has folding equity if he pushes. I would much rather take the hand down right now than risk missing my draw, even though I am a favorite to make the draw by the river. Taking a free card seems too weak, and letting your opponent think he can induce a fold seems dangerous. I think just pushing may be the best option. It is a huge overbet, but you have a huge draw and are most likely a favorite at this point.

gergery · #5 09-01-2004, 03:30 PM

The line you took is fine vs. most opponents.

Your opponent was pretty loose aggressive in his play tho, and if you knew that, then I might not have tried to steal with that hand, primarily because he should be easily beatable in the future. I might limp here since loosey is in the SB not BB, if I thought they wouldn’t raise a weak looking button limp.

I think your raise on the flop is better than pushing all-in, mainly because you want to be raising in most of the pots you play and that’s better than risking all your chips (ie. you’re doing it for future hands not this one). If the table was about to break or something then it’s closer, but raising all-in might be better as you are just a slight favorite vs. most hands and want the folding equity.

Vs. his actual hand, you were a 70% favorite on flop, so if you knew/thought he had overcards, then whatever got his chips into the middle was best.

--Greg

davidross · #6 09-01-2004, 04:15 PM

OK, I'm in a crappy mood cuz I just lost $1400 in 2 hours so I'll tell you what I really think. You both played this hand like idiots. You have presumably played solid poker for several hours and are the 2 chip leaders at your table, and solidly in the money, and you hook up with each other with crap hands just before the bubble. He makes a "hail mary" bluff for almost all his chips, and you get knocked out of the tournament playing 64.

I don't like stealing from obvious stealing positions (Button and SB) when the big stack is behind you. In hindsight pushing on the flop looks nice but it's a huge overbet, your bet should push off hands that missed, now you have to decide if you like your chances on the draw. Unless he has 77 or 55 your odds are great so you call. I think kyou played it fine post-flop, but your pre-flop decision trapped you into losing all your chips. Tough luck.

Pat Southern · #7 09-01-2004, 04:19 PM

I think you played it fine. Pushing almost 12,000 into a 4200 chip pot is not a good play in my opinion. You want to get your money into the pot here, unless he has a fullhouse or trips, you have a great chance of doubling up, just because you were willing to call an all in doesn't mean you should have pushed immediately.