Some newbie questions on heads-up stud and razz

[cognito20]

Hi everyone. My name's Scott, and I've just joined the 2+2 boards. I've been playing for about 6 months, and I'm mostly an online and home-game low-limit (0.50/1 through 2/4) player, although I do occasionally play in ring games at Turning Stone and Seneca Niagara (I live in Ithaca, NY).

Basically, I have a question concerning acceptable starting hands in heads-up matches, especially as applies to Seven-Card Stud, Stud Eight-or-Better, and Razz. My brother and I play weekly heads-up rotation matches (Limit Hold Em, Stud, Stud Hi/Low, Omaha, Omaha Hi/Low, Razz). We play starting with 1500 in chips apiece, Hold Em/Omaha structure is 10/20, and Stud is 15/30 with a dealer ante of 5 and a bring-in of 5. Now, I realize that, in Limit Hold Em headsup, pretty much any two cards are playable from the button, since you're in position and, with 5 and 10 blinds, getting 3-1 effective pot odds when no hand is that much of an underdog against a random hand. My question is, does this same logic apply to Stud, Stud/8 and Razz? In other words, with this ante, bring-in, and bet structure, is any hand playable against an opponent who just brings it in for the lower amount (5), i.e. is there any hand in Stud, Stud/8 or Razz that would be more than a 2-1 underdog against a random hand? If so, what do you think they would be? I realize that a lot of heads-up play is dependent on the opponent you're playing and your read of him/her, but are there hands out there, all other things being equal, that you would just throw away on Third Street? Also, what standards would you use to determine, if you are the bring-in, whether to either bring it in for the full amount or to call or reraise your opponent if he raises your bring-in? Would it be better to use something hand-value oriented, or something more in line with game theory?

I know this is a lot, especially for a first post, but any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. I'm finding 2+2 greatly informative thus far, and look forward to a long continuing dialogue with all of you. Cheers. :-)

--Scott M. Blish
Ithaca, NY

[schubes]

Hi Scott, welcome to the forums!

You shouldn't think about heads-up 3rd street play in terms of preflop play in hold'em. The steal position in stud games doesn't have a positional advantage, and 4th street doesn't change hand values in the same way as the flop. The major consideration on 3rd is the doorcards. A strong doorcard will always raise a bring-in with a much weaker doorcard, and the bring-in is often folded. The 3 stud games play very differently here: For instance in Razz, the high card brings-in, and if there is a significant difference in strength, like between a 5 and a J, the 5 will always raise and the J (almost) always fold, regardless of the holecards. On the other hand in Stud/8 the low card brings-in, and because a low doorcard is stronger in practice than a medium card, it's not uncommon for the steal position to fold to the bring-in.

I think you will get more response if you post specific hands in the stud forum. Your question is broad and very complicated, and I don't think most posters in the HUSH forum play heads-up stud.