KK in BB and I'm Not Folding It

Huskiez · #1 03-16-2005, 09:33 PM

Played this hand a while back. Wanted to hear what you guys had to say. Mostly interested in turn play. Might be standard or it might be a leak.

MP is 85/6. UTG is 52/15.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $5/$10 NL Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($906.5)
SB ($385)
Hero ($1732.5)
UTG ($1161)
MP ($1310)
CO ($2011.5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG raises to $20, MP calls $20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $75, UTG calls $65, MP calls $65.

Flop: ($260) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $258, UTG folds, MP calls $258.

Turn: ($776) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $774, MP calls $774.

River: ($2324) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: $2324

AZK · #2 03-16-2005, 10:25 PM

Seems fine, except for the river. Pot stands at 2400 and you have roughly 600 left in your stack MP has roughly 400, it's not like either of you are folding to each other's bets, so why do you check this river? Did you suddently wake up and think, he has hearts and is bad enough to call a potsized bet on the turn? or my KK isn't good? What exactly was the rational. Basically, you are potstuck on this river .

Arguments could be made for betting a lot less on the turn, it would definitely help the pot-stuck issue, but online, I just never give anyone credit. (Probably a reason why I'm the fish online and don't play online anymore)....

Kaz The Original · #3 03-16-2005, 11:16 PM

On the river, the only pair he beats is queens. You're not folding, but he is not ahead MOST of the time here. He still has to call, but a number of better hands will check behind.

fsuplayer · #4 03-16-2005, 11:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He still has to call, but a number of better hands will check behind

[/ QUOTE ]

like what?

Kaz The Original · #5 03-16-2005, 11:25 PM

AA.

Huskiez · #6 03-17-2005, 12:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Arguments could be made for betting a lot less on the turn, it would definitely help the pot-stuck issue, but online, I just never give anyone credit. (Probably a reason why I'm the fish online and don't play online anymore)....

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha. I definitely don't give my opponents any respect or credit for a hand whatsoever. And at times I definitely am the fish.

Haven't gotten to that point of stopping online though. It's all I've got really.

Huskiez · #7 03-17-2005, 12:38 AM

Hm. Please note that Villain is 85 VPIP, 6 PFR. I don't think he necessarily has to have AA or QQ.

technologic · #8 03-17-2005, 01:18 AM

anyhow, flop play seems ok, but i think you can slow down on the turn, because he'll probably want to knock off a free card if he has a draw, and you'll be able to get away from it if it hits. i mean fish or no fish, few ppl will call almost their entire stack for a draw with one card to come, there is no room for him to make an error on the turn. maybe a half to third size pot bet is in order. with kings you really want to show them down for as small as price as possible imo once that flop is called. maybe i'm just too weak tight...

Huskiez · #9 03-17-2005, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems fine, except for the river. Pot stands at 2400 and you have roughly 600 left in your stack MP has roughly 400, it's not like either of you are folding to each other's bets, so why do you check this river? Did you suddently wake up and think, he has hearts and is bad enough to call a potsized bet on the turn? or my KK isn't good? What exactly was the rational. Basically, you are potstuck on this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured him for a draw and maybe a pair to go with it. Either that river two paired him or made his flush or straight, and he'll call my bet either way.

If somehow he didn't complete his hand (something like 76 or Q4) maybe he would want to fire on the river with his missed hand and that huge scare card out there. Also, he might not fire on the river with two pair or set, but would call with it due to pot size.

Huskiez · #10 03-17-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
anyhow, flop play seems ok, but i think you can slow down on the turn, because he'll probably want to knock off a free card if he has a draw, and you'll be able to get away from it if it hits. i mean fish or no fish, few ppl will call almost their entire stack for a draw with one card to come, there is no room for him to make an error on the turn. maybe a half to third size pot bet is in order. with kings you really want to show them down for as small as price as possible imo once that flop is called. maybe i'm just too weak tight...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about slowing down, but given his 85/6 and the fact that the flop was draw heavy, I think the hand to put him on is a draw (+ pair maybe).

Given his stats, I really don't think he's a player who is thinking about the pot or implied odds. More so just the cards he has and the big pot.

Very often when a player calls my pot bet and I'm out of position, I would probably want to see a cheap showdown. Against this type of player, I think I'm committed and want to get as much money in against his probable inferior hand.

Can someone show me flaws in my logic?