PL triple draw

MarkGritter · #1 10-22-2005, 02:17 AM

GamesGrid has a PL Triple Draw Lowball tournament tomorrow (today?) -- Saturday -- at 3pm, looks like it's sponsored by people from the Something Awful forum ("GSOP Offseason".) From what I can gather, it's not going to run because it got set up too late; the password was never posted.

But I'm curious, any ideas how to play this game?

HU against an opponent who is making pot-sized bets, you will only have immediate odds to draw if he's got a J and you've got a 1-card draw to a 7. So obviously a lot of the play is going to revolve around getting paid off or making plays at the pot rather than straight value, which I think is the core of solid limit TD play.

OTOH, a rough pat hand faces a serious dilemma on the middle two rounds of betting; he can't afford to give his opponent free cards, but a decent-sized bet is going to give better implied odds for the previous draws.

My instincts would be to stick with one-card draws to an 8 or better as starting hands, but only be willing to chase for two draws, since you will most likely get paid off on the 3rd round, not the 4th--- thus you usually won't have odds to take the third card vs. a big bet. But then this allows for an observant opponent to make numerous 3rd round bets, etc.

The amount of information you don't have here is scary. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Perhaps I just don't understand big-bet poker.

I wonder if there is any insight from PL Razz? Or is that just as confusing/annoying a game?

timprov · #2 10-22-2005, 02:25 AM

I think you underestimate how passive the typical play is going to be. Potting it on a draw is something most people aren't comfortable with.

The biggest change is that you can't just blithely bet while a card ahead anymore, because a check-raise can really hurt and probably make you lay your hand down.

Soviet Exile · #3 10-22-2005, 03:01 AM

Why would anyone play such a silly game?

Luv2DriveTT · #4 10-22-2005, 01:14 PM

Sounds like the worst game structure ever. PL TD? Yuch.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

beset7 · #5 10-22-2005, 04:19 PM

I was under the impression that this game always played PL/NL until fairly recently. Atleast thats what phatmack and others led me to believe when we discussed this in this forum 9 months ago or so.

timprov · #6 10-22-2005, 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that this game always played PL/NL until fairly recently. Atleast thats what phatmack and others led me to believe when we discussed this in this forum 9 months ago or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Triple Draw started in Mississippi as a PL game, usually a very big one. Fortunately it's changed.

Wiesenberg article.

Phat Mack · #7 10-24-2005, 01:46 AM

Jim Geary made a couple of excellent posts on PLTD 2 or 3 years ago. You might be able to find them in the archives.

PL is the only way to playe this game. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Luv2DriveTT · #8 10-24-2005, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Jim Geary made a couple of excellent posts on PLTD 2 or 3 years ago. You might be able to find them in the archives.

PL is the only way to playe this game. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Its a bad way to play this game, hence why its not played PL at the Bellagio or the Commerce. I trust the biggest players and the management's decisions in these two rooms, I think they know whats best for the game's growth.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Chris Daddy Cool · #9 10-24-2005, 09:13 AM

NL lowball is tough enough to play, it would just be too difficult to have a reasonable pace for the game to have 3 draws, which is why i think having it strictly in limit form is best.

Phat Mack · #10 10-24-2005, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jim Geary made a couple of excellent posts on PLTD 2 or 3 years ago. You might be able to find them in the archives.

PL is the only way to playe this game. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Its a bad way to play this game, hence why its not played PL at the Bellagio or the Commerce. I trust the biggest players and the management's decisions in these two rooms, I think they know whats best for the game's growth.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

We disagree, and that's fine. I'll admit that I prefer pot limit in almost all forms of poker.

I do think that it may be a mistake to think that cardrooms are making decisions on what to spread based on rational thinking as to what is good for a game's growth. There are a lot of other things involved.

1. The market; the recent growth in TD is probably due, to a great degree, on its being spread in limit format on UB. If that is what the customers are used to, then that is what they'll want to play, and that's what the B&M's will spread.

2. There may also be lingering feelings that big-bet formats are bad for poker--that they make the fish broker faster. There were posts on 2+2 for years using this rationale to explain why NL hold 'em was extinct. I think NL's recent revival has disproven that belief.

3. It's hard to spread PL games since PL is the most difficult format to deal. I played some 20-40 PL TD at the Rio last June. A dealer pushed in who had never dealt lowball, never dealt TD, never dealt any PL game, and could understand English (although the spoke it OK). I left the game, as it was out of control after one hand.

I don't believe that there is one form of poker that is best. I think different variations are introduced, become popular, and then, as more and more players become knowedgable, dry up and lose their action. The speed at which this occurs depends on the complexity of the game and its variance. I think limit TD is more cut and dried than PL TD, and therefore won't last as long. Witness the posters on this forum who were complete novices at TD, and then were writing fairly sophisticated posts in a matter of weeks. I've talked to people who play high limit TD online, and they tell me that the action has slowed down considerably, but I don't have any personal knowledge of this.

I've been playing various forms of PL TD for 40 years, and the game has faded in and out, but I'm just not sure that limit will last as long.

I'd encourage any of the TD limit players to give PL a try if they have access to games. Changing formats is a big trap in any format of poker, but something that can be exploited very profitably by analytical players. How many times have you heard limit HE players say how much they enjoy playing limit with NLHE players, and how many times have you heard NLHE players say that they love playing NL with limit players? I don't think it's going to be long before you see PL or NL TD online.

I'm not trying to sell anything here, just offering a few thoughts.