20/40 vs 10/20 in AC

[soh538]

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As a poker player, you should play where the action is. If the game is 20-40, the action is MUCH better at Taj than Borg in my experience, any day of the week. I actually like Taj a lot bc it has more of that old time, degenerate gambling, people losing a stash of cash they can't afford feel to it. Of course, I like Borg also.

In my experience, best action in AC:

10-20: Borg, but Taj is also very good
20-40: Taj by a good margin, though the Borg 20 is also soft
40-80: Taj when it runs, but Borg has great games going 24-7 so Borg wins
Higher: Only at Borg

Stud: The Taj...I will forever love this place due to wide availability of stud at mid and high limits.

Jeff

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Even tho i am not crazy about the Taj, they do spread a variety of games.

[Prodigy]

okay, as I've played these two games almost fulltime since 2001-Jan.2005, I will briefly share the information that I have gathered regarding these two games.

10-20 Taj.
This game is fairly passive around the clock. People generally play straight up. You will RARELY see a river bluff or someone getting out of line w/o having one pair beat on the turn. The difference between this game from the limits below is that people will use the "old" free card move by raising the flop and checking the turn. They think this play is VERY advance. You will rarely see someone raising the turn w/ TPTK or a double draw. A raise on the flop usually means top pair or a draw. You will get more information on the turn by their action. 3bet out of the blind usually means AA, KK. In the most part, almost ABC poker.

20-40 Taj.
In this game, position becomes VERY important. You also have to know which players are able to pull off sophisticated postflop moves. From what I've seen, there is alot of "Nasty" poker. By Nasty, I'm talking about people betting into someone because they know it will be raised, to knock out the best hand. There are far more advanced plays in 20-40, I don't know if people notice this or not. Because of people like the rich Europeans, the regular Greeks, and super LAG Sang, the table is usually on tilt and draws are played very aggressively in multiway pots. Table selection in the 20-40 game is VERY important. Watch out for games filled w/ LAG asians and Greeks. Be prepared to call down w/ marginal hands, that MAY be the best hand. AND NEVER show your good folds. People in the 20-40 will see this as a weak player and the LAGs will continually try to run you over. People in 20-40 love suited cards and ANY pocket pairs. I'm sure 10-20 players do too, but they will be played much more aggressively in the 20-40 game.

The biggest difference between the two games is in the 20-40 game, draws are played very aggressively and you will see more advanced plays such as...
-smooth calling w/ the nuts to induce an overcall on the river in a multiway pot.

-Raising the Turn w/ position in order to buy a free showdown w/ fold equity on the turn.

In 20-40 Top Pair (overpair) still may be good even if you are facing a raise on the turn. In 10-20, you are almost NEVER good with just one pair, when facing a turn raise. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.


To JEFFAGE: the 75 game is good because of players like Larry, the jamacian guy, and confused players like Mario, who give themselves too much credit. (or in Larry's case, you really don't care about the money and just LOVE the action.)

Were you around in August when that Korean business owner (import and export business in VA/DC who wore that fished out VISOR, basically letting everyone know he's a tourist whale) ran over the game for weeks? He had a very cute/petite and polite wife who was always sitting behind him. He beat the 75 game along with a few sessions at 200-400 for almost 40K. (Aboout 12K was probably from me in the 75-150 stud game)

These factors are why I have to agree that this game is one of the best in the country...or it can be torture when you can never make a 2nd pair and you lose to 9's and 7's, 6's up ALL DAY LONG. You look at your Split aces w/ 4 diamonds and a gutshot straight draw, and muck on the river because someone w/ no pair, no draw made Jacks' on 5th and caught a dead 4 on the river to make Jack's and 4's.

[Jeffage]

Prodigy,

I know all the people you are talking about in the 75 game (with possible exception of the Jamaican guy but I'm sure I'd know him if I saw him). I'd rather not discuss anyone by name on this public forum, but they are generally nice guys who like lots of action.

As for the Korean guy, he is still there and still playing high limits (150-300, 2-4, 75-150, 40-80, whatever). Legend has it (and this has been verified by a number of people) that this person won more than $10,000 in a 20-40 hold em game and no, that is NOT a misprint. But he is very friendly and likes to splash for sure. He's gone beyond me though, since 75-150 is pretty much as high as I go except under very special circumstances that I can't imagine yet lol.

As for variance, high limit stud has a bunch of it. But I find the swings much less ridiculous than, say, 80-160 Hold Em at Borgata. People play more straightforwardly and raises on later streets typically are what they represent, save for a few people. Plus it's easier not to get trapped with marginal hands whereas the 80 Hold Em often becomes a game where you have to pay off alot bc it's so aggro. This is just my opinion though - the 75 game has plenty of swings.

Good luck at the tables,
Jeff

[Prodigy]

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As for the Korean guy, he is still there and still playing high limits (150-300, 2-4, 75-150, 40-80, whatever). Legend has it (and this has been verified by a number of people) that this person won more than $10,000 in a 20-40 hold em game and no, that is NOT a misprint. But he is very friendly and likes to splash for sure. He's gone beyond me though, since 75-150 is pretty much as high as I go except under very special circumstances that I can't imagine yet lol.


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LOL, I can't believe you know about this legendary story. Now, I know for sure you are talking about the same person. I have become very friendly with him, and have eaten dinner with him and invited to alot more. He is a VERY nice guy, as is Larry and the rest of the 75stud family. I didn't mean to disrespect them in any way. I was just commenting on their style of play. It also helps that these guys are not playing over their head and just there to have a good time. Larry is by far one of the nicest non-professional in the pit. Very nice, and never gets angry at the table. One of the best table manners for someone who gives the most brutal beats and takes some as well (when he has a real hand, because he never gets any credit). Sorry if I came off any differently.

Now back to the Korean Guy. I have a pretty interesting story for you. Around the end of July, he was busted out and had a bunch of money orders $500 a piece, which he could not cash because he wrote "Resorts" on it by accident, but found out you can only cash $500 at time or so. He asked me if I can loan him $2000 until the weekend is over and you will get more money on Monday. Obviously, I said no, as he crushed one of my partner in the 75 stud game that weekend (Thurs-Monday, we went halves). Turns out he was able to get cash from someone 1800 for 2K in money order and preceded this amazing rush. The following week when I saw him, he showed me his rolex that he bought at the borgata for him and his wife. I told him jokingly, now you have something to pawn if you go broke again. I also told him next time, don't buy a Rolex at a gift shop at a casino. You are better off getting one at a Pawn Shop at a significantly discounted price.

While he was temporarily broke, he was keep commenting/persuading me that he is a lucky player and that I should go partners with him. He knows he's not the best player, but he is a lucky player. I can only imagine if I decided to go partners with him...probably 20-30K for myself and a Rolex as a gift for having faith in him.

Is winning 10K in a 20-40 game REALLY legendary? In Feb. 2003, I won 13K in 15-30 Limit Holdem in 11 hours at the Taj. By far, the craziest rush I've ever been on. I should promote this story so I can become legendary.

Since you do not discuss anyone by name in a public forum, can you PM me what you think of Garbage (Jack). He's the older chinese guy that usually plays table captain. Let me know what you think about his play as well as a partnership for a bigger game has been brought up.

You're probably wondering why I don't just play myself. I don't think I'm good enough to play w/ these players YET. I've been practicing at the 1-5 stud games, but the no anti structure makes it boring. The people who play are miserable, the dealer is miserable because hardly anyone ever tips, and the players are just god-awful. They don't know how to fold an open pair. They think (K4)5 is a limping hand, especially if 2 out of the 3 cards are of same suit...i can go on on how bad they play. It is fun torturing these people w/ their soft play and my aggressive play. If i have a hand, i extract the max, if i'm on a big draw, just "check" or do a block bet of $1.

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I run into you, somewhere on the felt.

[Jeffage]

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Since you do not discuss anyone by name in a public forum, can you PM me what you think of Garbage (Jack). He's the older chinese guy that usually plays table captain. Let me know what you think about his play as well as a partnership for a bigger game has been brought up.

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Without saying anything else, I will say I feel it is extremely foolish to engage in any of the following in casinos: backing, staking, partners, taking pieces, loaning money, etc. Play your own money and don't get personally/financially involved with any of these people. You will be much happier with your financial state in 10 years if you follow this advice. Just one man's opinion...

Jeff

re the original msg, i have definitely played at borgata on weekends where 20/40 was a better game than 10/20 - last saturday was an excellent example

i would caveat that players in the 20 game are much more likely to use metagame considerations in adjusting their play, but i still think it can be better than playing against some of the rock-like regulars in the 10 game and frustratingly trying to squeeze out a few steals here and there

[poker327]

In my limited experience playing Borgata 20/40, it was always more aggressive than the 10/20. You rarely see a reraise in 10/20, while in 20/40 it is not uncommon. As Prodigy said, a raise in 20/40 doesn't mean as much as it does in 10/20. Obviously, it depends on the players in the game, but the regular players in the 10/20 usually play pretty straightforward.