AJs

[Phoenix1010]

I would check behind the turn and call/bet any non K or 8 river. My hand is not strong enough to want to get allin, and I don't much mind giving free cards because the draw I'm likely facing is pretty clearly visible. It's not certain that he's going to go to the felt with a smaller two pair, but he definitely will with a set or straight. You've picked up a 4 out redraw and you have plenty of showdown strength, I don't want to dip too deeply in this spot.

[amoeba]

this is an easy reraise for me preflop.

if you are afraid of reraising because AJs is marginal then considering why you are calling?

if you are afraid of being dominated then you should fold.but villain's range is so wide that its unlikely and in the event that he does have say AQ, AK, my flop bet has much much more fold equity the times we both miss and he checks to me.

smoothcalling with AJ and playing it 3 way is bad.

reraise reraise reraise.

[amoeba]

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I would some of the time. 20% includes a lot of crappy hands, and wtih a caller in between you got a nice squeeze... Even if you get called you take the pot down on the flop the majority of the time. They just called with a pocket pair for the implied odds against your obvious aces. And you are sooted.

But calling is obviously fine. I am just a frequent reraiser of late, but it's worked out well.

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reraising is better than calling.

calling blows.

[scdavis0]

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I would some of the time. 20% includes a lot of crappy hands, and wtih a caller in between you got a nice squeeze... Even if you get called you take the pot down on the flop the majority of the time. They just called with a pocket pair for the implied odds against your obvious aces. And you are sooted.

But calling is obviously fine. I am just a frequent reraiser of late, but it's worked out well.

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reraising is better than calling.

calling blows.

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This kind of hyperbole gets really tiring.

And I disagree.

[amoeba]

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I would some of the time. 20% includes a lot of crappy hands, and wtih a caller in between you got a nice squeeze... Even if you get called you take the pot down on the flop the majority of the time. They just called with a pocket pair for the implied odds against your obvious aces. And you are sooted.

But calling is obviously fine. I am just a frequent reraiser of late, but it's worked out well.

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reraising is better than calling.

calling blows.

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This kind of hyperbole gets really tiring.

And I disagree.

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please read my earlier post.

calling is AJ is bad because while suited and mildly connected, you just don't flop the straight and or the flush that often. because villain is LAG, most hands from villain youve seen before this hand likely did not go to showdown and thus you have no idea the with what range villain is willing to commit with how much on later streets.

you flop a pair 1/3 of the time. of the times that you flop a J , some of hte time a Q or K is also on the flop and you still have to check fold.

to compound our problem, there is a third player who is likely calling with a marginal hand who we are giving a free shot at hitting a TP breaking hand.

what if villain's preflop raise % was 30%? 40%? do we agree that reraising AJ is the right play in this case? or do we still hope to make TP on the flop and try to trap?

[amoeba]

I remember having a debate on this a while ago that got kind of ugly so I don't want to repeat that.

I will just leave you guys with a question.

what is more likely "that our AJ is best against villain's range preflop" or that "our TP is good against our villain on the turn or river" ?

the sheer fact that OP has problems calling a push getting 3 to 1 with top two in this hand clearly demonstrates why reraising preflop is superior.

[scdavis0]

The only point I'm trying to make here is we are likely talking about small amounts of EV either way. Calling and raising are way, way better than folding. Raising may be a little bit better than folding. This whole -- CALLING IS OMG HORRIBLE, CALLING BLOWZ, is just not necessary.

20% is not like ridic LAG. I am at like 18% or something and I'd say I'm smart LAG that maybe gives up a little bit pre flop. Maybe he just goes crazy and raises any two from the cut off or button. Maybe he plays straight forward UTG. I really doubt you have his hand range just flat out ridiculously dominated with AJ suited.

How you play the hand after the flop is going to be a lot more important.

[amoeba]

[ QUOTE ]
The only point I'm trying to make here is we are likely talking about small amounts of EV either way. Calling and raising are way, way better than folding. Raising may be a little bit better than folding. This whole -- CALLING IS OMG HORRIBLE, CALLING BLOWZ, is just not necessary.

20% is not like ridic LAG. I am at like 18% or something and I'd say I'm smart LAG. Maybe he just goes crazy and raises any two from the cut off or button. Maybe he plays straight forward UTG. I really doubt you have his hand range just flat out ridiculously dominated with AJ suited.

How you play the hand after the flop is going to be a lot more important.

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precisely because we fear a smart LAG is why the reraise is good. if villain was dumb LAG, reraising is actually not so good.

the reraise forces villain to play a narrower range of hands postflop then had you just called which allows us to pick up a substantial amount of unclaimed pots.

The reason I feel calling is bad ( and perhaps my hyperboles were a bit over the top) is because a call is how good lags make money off of us. They take us off best hands when we both miss and when we play back the times we flop something, they won't continue in the hand unless if they have us beat.

your pfr is much higher than mine. so coming from a pseudo smart lag, wouldn't you agree that you would much prefer somebody behind you who reraised with a well defined range rather than somebody who occasionally threw in a well timed reraise bluff?

[jkkkk]

Uhm no, if villain is a bad LAG, re-raising is great (in this case I think re raising is OK) but if the villain is simply a little looser and aggressive than most, which range of hands do you see him calling with?

[amoeba]

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Uhm no, if villain is a bad LAG, re-raising is great (in this case I think re raising is OK) but if the villain is simply a little looser and aggressive than most, which range of hands do you see him calling with?

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if villain is bad LAG, reraising is bad. if villain is bad lag and he 3 bets all in, what do you do? if villain is bad lag and he smoothcalls and then fires pot on a KJx flop, what do you do? or if flop comes all unders and he bets pot?

you are put in to many many more marginal situations if villain is bad lag than if villain is good LAG assuming good LAG villain does not think you capable of reraising AJ.

I don't mind a fold from villains of hands that I am coinflip with or near coinflip with (KT, KQ). I also don't mind if villain folds suited connectors and other implied odds hands. but if he does call my reraise with say a mid pocket pair hoping to bust my "obvious" AA/KK, I make money when he doesn't hit his set and I don't lose much the times he does hit. if he calls with AK, AQ, because we are sharing the A, it will happen less than 1/3 the time that he flops a pair and even if he does flop the pair, playing it out of position against a tight preflop reraiser sucks thus if he is smart LAG, he likely folds a lots of better hands.