River Play

MrFeelNothin · #1 12-01-2004, 05:20 AM

Party 3/6, table is 5handed at this point.

Button is aggressive and slightly loose preflop, rarely entering a hand without raising, loose and passive postflop, going to showdown too often.

BB is new, no reads.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP folds, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (10.66 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises?

The BB had 7.50 left before the river, so his river bet put him all-in except for 1.5. Is this play standard? Correct? Incorrect? I won't go into my thoughts on it, rather I will see what all you all think. Thanks. Also, on a side note, should I have bet the turn?

sthief09 · #2 12-01-2004, 08:34 AM

I'd have bet the turn... interesting though. I like it. no risk of being 3-bet by BB and you get to squeeze out the button

Harv72b · #3 12-01-2004, 08:41 AM

I'd say good chance of being 3-bet by BB if he's holding QQ. I seriously doubt that he'll put Hero on KQ or even AQ after he capped preflop.

The only thing the river raise accomplishes IMO is to (possibly) reduce the number of people you'll be splitting the pot with if none of you have a Q. Given the action up to that point, I see no way that anyone does fold a Q, though, meaning that what you're probably accomplishing is to give one more BB to whoever calls you.

Edit to include:

Regarding the possibility of a flush, I still doubt that anyone folds a Q to your raise, especially after you check/called the turn instead of betting out (which I'd expect someone who picked up a flush draw to do). And there is, of course, the chance that you actually are up against a flush.

sthief09 · #4 12-01-2004, 09:03 AM

I'm not suggesting that anyone will fold a Q. I'm saying that there's value in the play by virtue that (1) you're calling anyway, so if the button folds and the BB calls, it only costs you .25 BB more than it would have anyway, and (2) if the button folds, you win an extra 1/6 of the pot the times you chop

MrFeelNothin · #5 12-01-2004, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you're calling anyway, so if the button folds and the BB calls, it only costs you .25 BB more than it would have anyway, and (2) if the button folds, you win an extra 1/6 of the pot the times you chop

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. The pot is big, so if I can get the button to fold in a three-way split I gain about 2.33 BBs. The key being that the BB has only $1.5 left after his bet, meaning if hes not bluffing its only costing me an extra 1/4 of a BB since I'm calling anyways. Also, I think that since he only had about one bet going into the river, he is likely to bet pretty much any hand since he too would be calling anyways. Because of this I think the vast majority of the time I will be splitting with him. I still don't know what percentages I should have assigned to the possibilities of the button or the BB having a Q or the flush, but I figure that if the button has it its costing me 2BB to win just over two BBs, and if the BB has it, I'm losing only 1/4 of a BB since I was calling anyways. So I guess it comes down to if the button has the higher straight or a flush less than half the time it is a profitable play, assuming he folds if he doesn't have it. Correct? Now if the button was a very intelligent player and could see what I was doing and resteal on me that would throw another twist into it, but I wasn't at all afraid of that.

MrFeelNothin · #6 12-01-2004, 03:39 PM

The button folded, and the BB had A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and we split. Despite the results, I wasn't at all sure if the raise had been worth it, but now that I have been thinking about it I think it was a pretty standard raise.