My last NL post for a while - Page 4

yvesaint · #31 11-04-2005, 04:44 PM

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Why is everybody laughing at me? This is a full table right??? Ok, so a guy (EP?) raises 4 times the BB and you want this guy to invest a couple hundred bucks just to feel around and see if this guy maybe,sorta, perhaps just has two overcards? Its no great play to call here, just do the math. I'm not saying its wrong, but this pot is not multiway and there's no guarantee that you make anything even if u do hit. Am I missing something here? We all have mental blocks on stuff. Help a brother out.

Indy

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theyre laughing because you want to fold 99 for a 4xBB raise from MP pre-flop ....are you regularly folding 99 pre-flop? TT?

Indiana · #32 11-04-2005, 04:46 PM

No I don't regularly fold 99 but if I know its gonna be shorthanded and this guy could very well have me beat, I call knowing that the call is not huge EV over the long run. TT is my breaking point here where I think it starts to become clearer. I think one thing i must be missing is that this isn't a full 9 player game right?

Indy

turnipmonster · #33 11-04-2005, 05:56 PM

why would it being shorthanded and a heads up pot make it more likely you're beat?

as for folding preflop, the guy opened for 40. in the 5/10 games I play, even the fishiest players do this with regularity with a wide range of hands, especially shorthanded. raising approximately the size of the pot, even preflop, is a fairly common bet in NL games played with cash money.

--turnipmonster

Indiana · #34 11-04-2005, 06:00 PM

Fewer players certaintly increases the strength of 99. Isn't this obvious. For example, 99 is almost certain to be best heads up in this situation but prolly not in a full table under these conditions.

Indy

Big_Jim · #35 11-04-2005, 06:13 PM

Of course, the problem with the c/r here is that it is basically a bluff, and there is no way to get to showdown with the best hand (vs. any thnking opponent anyway)

However, if PFR is very likely to fire out a continuation bet, this move works often enough that it is definately +EV. Of course this is an "any two card" kind of play.

Also, when you check/fold for the rest of the hand, it gives you good Shania for future flop check/raises.

fuego527 · #36 11-04-2005, 06:22 PM

Indiana,

There are 2 possibilities here. Either, your opponents are super bad and an open raise from MP is top 5 hands, or your opponents are somewhat decent and they could be raising any pp, any high cards, any suited connectors, any single or double gapped suited cards, basically a wide range of hands.

Situation #1: This is an easy call. If your opponents are this bad just calling for set value is EV+. If they are bad but on the tight side, this is also clearly exploitable for EV.

Situation #2: This is also a call. This is most likely a value call. If you don't want to call because you are uncomfortable in this spot, perhaps you should move down in stakes until you are comfortable doing so.

turnipmonster · #37 11-04-2005, 06:34 PM

I do know this, hence my confusion at your remark:

"No I don't regularly fold 99 but if I know its gonna be shorthanded "

LuvDemNutz · #38 11-04-2005, 06:53 PM

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Fewer players certaintly increases the strength of 99. Isn't this obvious. For example, 99 is almost certain to be best heads up in this situation but prolly not in a full table under these conditions.

Indy

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If your opponents ever figure out that you are folding a hand as good as 99 here you are going to get abused.

tpir90036 · #39 11-04-2005, 07:30 PM

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Of course, the problem with the c/r here is that it is basically a bluff, and there is no way to get to showdown with the best hand (vs. any thnking opponent anyway)

However, if PFR is very likely to fire out a continuation bet, this move works often enough that it is definately +EV. Of course this is an "any two card" kind of play.

Also, when you check/fold for the rest of the hand, it gives you good Shania for future flop check/raises.

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The bottom line and the thing that I need to work on is that lately I am afraid of getting raised. There, I said it. I like being the one driving the betting and forcing the decisions... and when people put me to a decision.... well, then I have a chance to screw something up and get outplayed one way or the other. I guess part of this comes from running bad and making the "wrong" decisions even though they may be good in the long run. And now I am all backwards.

Maybe I will pound down a few gin and tonics before I play to get over this fear that has popped up. Nothing like treating one vice with another [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-tpir

James282 · #40 11-04-2005, 07:31 PM

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yea. laugh at him. thats wonderful. idiot.

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This isn't even a fold in a tournament.

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fine. but why not explain to him that its not a fold. not laugh at him when he's down on himself. thats what makes that poster an idiot.

Barron

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Cmon Barron. This is the mid-high stakes forum. Anyone who says "consider a fold preflop" really should not be offering his 2 cents on any hand. Not trying to be a dick, but you know it's true.
-James