Tight Play and Long Streaks

[Lexander]

Thanks for the advice.

- Lex

[CORed]

For low limit online play, I find playing two tables helps a lot. You see twice as many nands per hour, and those pocket deuces under the gun are a lot less tempting when you have AK on the other table. The downside is you have less time to observe your opponents, and are likely to make more mistakes.

[JimandAnne]

I just want to tell you that I really appreciate your post. Your play and level sound identical to me. I also get frustrated with long periods of no action, with the action I do get, someone hits a card on the river.

I also crave action, but so far I can seem to wait it out. My problem is that I can't spend alot of time at each session. I can only play for 1/2 to an hour at a time (usually after the wife and kids go to bed).

I just wanted to say thanks for the post.

[lunchmeat]

I'm in the middle of an extended streak (2 1/2 weeks) of generally rotten luck, and I've been demoralized to the point where I'm playing a lot worse than I was when the streak started. I've lost money at the poker tables, but because of bonuses I'm actually ahead about $500. So I whole-heartedly recommend chasing every bonus possible for bankroll stability during bad swings. As far as emotional stability goes, I could use some tips myself.

[Dagrims]

If you crave action, consider dropping down to micro levels and playing more aggressively there. This should accomplish two things for you: satisfy your craving to play more hands, and also show you that it's better to play tighter if you want to win, because most likely you'll be losing money. You can experiment more and see for yourself, while only risking a dime or less per bet.

As far as other posters' comments about how to keep an even emotional keel, I'd suggest going to a bookstore and buying (or taking an hour to skim through) Zen and The Art of Poker by Larry Phillips. I don't agree with all that book has to say, but getting the mindset that folding often is a sign of strength, not weakness, was an important concept to me.

Website at Zen and the Art of Poker

Good luck!

Dagrims

[Lexander]

Thinking this over, I figure I am probably 50/50 on this. Your argument about the situation is sound. Unfortunately, with the style of play I see a lot at Party, it is not uncommon for even those pot odds to produce losing pots.

The most common is for A8o A2o to be playing a junk hand.

But, I often fold in this situation not because I truly believe it to be in that kind of trouble, but simply because I find that I lack the experience to really play this situation correctly and lay down the losing hand.

This last point raises an issue I am trying to overcome in my game. I understand that a proper tight-aggressive will play hands that I currently fold. In practice, I am probably in that middle between tight-passive and tight-aggressive. But I am doing that to preserve my morale while I learn. There are just a specific range of bad beats that are just too frustrating to deal with right now. So there are some hands that probably have mild PosEV that I am simply tossing. As I gain more experience, I expect to be more comfortable with these hands. I am also playing at the lowest Party limit, where people play awful hands. I specifically recall my AA playing against a hand that I was pretty sure was KK against a flop of QXX, both of us capping each round with one guy who stayed in with Q7. Needless to say, when the 7 hit the turn he got away with a nice pot.

In all fairness, I do know that what goes around, comes around. I was playing in one of the truly crazy 10 player SnG's using my 'don't play much of anything for 20 hands' strategy. My first hand was KK and I was in LP. I raised All-In with a few limpers (textbook beginner play I admit) and got called by the SB and an EP. SB had AA, EP had J2o. K hit the turn and winning the small tourney was pretty easy after that. Not only did the idiot calling with J2o get his due but I got lucky and beat AA for once.

- Lex

[RydenStoompala]

This is a great post. I enjoyed reading the advice coming your way as much of it is excellent. I'll just second a few ideas: 1) your hand selection should stay tight 2) you should post a few hands to let us see if we can help or learn something and 3) the psychological realities of pounding out one-two big bets per hour in a 1-2 or 2-4 online game are important. It's hard to do and not the most thrilling experience. When I started tracking my "streaks" I found a few gems. First, my losing streaks were not caused by strings of bad cards, they were caused by hand selction. Second, when I played properly and got aweful cards, I tended to break even or lose a little. Third, I shouldn't play after going through two bottles of wine with a few friends at dinner. Turns out that alcohol really does impair judgement. Sounds like you're doing fine.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]


Early Positions:
AA-22,AK-JTs,AQ,AJ,KQ,QJ

I am strongly considering moving AJ and QJ to middle position only. I am also considering moving 77-22 to middle or later. I consider my tendency to play pairs in early position to be a flaw in my game that I am changing.

Middle Positions:
87s-54s (with several callers at a passive table, otherwise these move to late)
JT,ATs,A9s,KJ

I am thinking KJo needs to go by the wayside.

Late Positions:
AXs

I tend to toss A5-A2s in most cases even in late position.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok a few comments. I'm a micro limit player myself but I've tinkered with my game and have been very successful over the last 88 hours of play. Now that's far from the long term so take my insights with whatever grain of salt you think appropriate...

As far as dumping the small pairs in early position...the starndard advice would be to do that. I'm not so sure its a mistake to play them in early position--depending on the game. If there's not a lot of preflop raising you can take a shot with them. Just understand that whatever position you play them from you are looking to flop a set or get out.
The only problem playing them early is a raise behind you, because you don't want to blow off two bets chasing a set if you don't have to. Of course if you limp in with a small pair late--say one off the button--there are still three guys who might raise you and trap you in for two bets so that's a risk anytime you play a small pair.

There is also an often overlooked advantage to playing the small pair in early position in low limit. If you do hit the set one of the guys to your right may bet first allowing you to raise to two bets. This may actually thin the field (and believe me with a set in low limit, thinning the field is a good idea--slow playing a set is not an option in low limit). Two bets won't get rid of anybody with a flush draw or open ended straight draw but it may get rid of the idiots drawing to an inside straight or anybody playing A-7 who flopped a seven and might turn or river a third seven to beat your smaller set. There are a lot of ways to get sucked out on with a set and in low limit people will show you all of them. The original bettor will call your two bets as will anybody with top pair big kicker and so will any flush draw....so you'll still get paid off if your set holds up...just try to limit the improbable suck outs. One small bet simply does a lousy job of thinning the field in low limit and a raise in late position simply gets all the one bet callers to call the second bet. (Note some people may say that keeping the guys in who are drawing at an inside straight or need a runner runner to beat your set is a good thing because they are so unlikely to make it and thus will be paying you off. I think you don't want six or seven people drawing at ways to beat your set)

I'd move QJ-off to late if I played it all. You either want a very big field with that and look for a straight, or a very small field (preferably heads up) where a pair is more likely to hold up. You need to be in late position to know if either of those conditions applies. Wouldn't hurt you to dump it altogether quite frankly...but I play it occaisionally given the right situation.

A-J I think you can keep playing in early position. Raise with it, two bets early may narrow the field and if you flop a pair you want a smaller field. Admittedly if you can't narrow it so that you do have a large field you really do like to act late in subsequent rounds--but I still think its playable early. Plus early position may let you probe a bit--if you flop top pair (jacks) with your ace kicker and your bet gets raised that tells you a lot more than if you raise a single bet late and the original better calls.

Ax suited in late position. I can take it or leave it, but I would rather have the A2-A5 suited than A-middle card suited. At least you have two ways to win with the smaller--a flush or a straight.

More generally and it seems to me most importantly: One of the keys for me is to chase as little as possible pre-flop and post flop. Its important to blow off as few chips as possible so that you don't have to win two or three bigish pots just to get into positive territory. Pre-flop that means not getting involved in anything mariginal.
Me I stay away from smaller suited connectors (anything below JTs) because those hit so infrequently. Now I know those straight and flush possibilities are very attractive because it seems like you need those monster hands to win in low limit. But get those monster hands with the large suited cards--your A-Qs your A-J suited, where you may flop top pair top kicker and have the nut flush possibility. And in the end, no matter how many straights, flushes and boats you see top pair top kicker is how you make your living in Hold em (even in low limit...Lee Jones says so in his book and my experience bears him out).

Also, if you spend 5,6,7 small bets seeing flops with these long shot (though powerful when they hit) hands, then a win doesn't do you as much good. Also you can afford to miss or get sucked out on more often with your A-Q and Ak or whatever--a loss or two doesn't hurt as much if you haven't already blown off a bunch of chips on long shot starting hands.

Finally, beware of chasing when you know you are beat. Recognize betting patterns. Sure people bluff but betting in low limit tends to be fairly straightforward. You can't always tell but often you can. If a guy has been checking and calling all the way to the river in a hand with four people in it and a third flush card hits on the river
and he leads out betting--he hit a flush. Simple as that.

Raises are very telling, not as telling as that flush bet but still telling. If you bet out with top pair top kicker and get raised there is a decent chance the raiser has something better than pair. It may not be the time to lay down the hand, but it may be the time to get cautious.

If there are four cards to a straight, or four suited cards on the board and some action...get the hell out.

Having said all that, be aggressive until you know or strongly suspect you are beat. With your A-K when you flop a king bet or raise. (If you raise and are re-raised though--slow down). If you have the nut flush draw (or probably even a lesser flush draw) put in a bet on the flop. etc etc.

Finally, you speak about playing 150 hands. I like to have at least 4-6 hours available to play and really like having more than six hours available. I know thats tough for some people, but I feel like, no matter how few good cards you have, nor that that the few you did get got sucked out on so far, given enough time and right play, the vast majority of times its going to turn around for you. The key is being patient until it does.

I love to fold pre-flop. I love it. Every bad hand I throw away saves me money. Every marginal hand that I don't play even though it looks like a monster because its been so long since I've seen a good hand, gets me that much closer to a really good hand. So I like to be able to play three hundred fifty or fourhundred fifty hands---no matter how few good cards I'm seeing, given those numbers I know I will see some good cards--and probably win my share of pots.

Geez I have more to say but I'm sure I've gone on way too long. Sorry about that.

--Zetack

[Lexander]

Your advice is excellent and I thank you for it.

- Lex