Asking for comments on hand

[ras]

I wanted to post this hand for comments:

$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo

Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: mothernature ( $61.98 )
Seat 3: hero ( $24.75 )
Seat 5: ekim72 ( $12.77 )
Seat 6: UnifiedHeart ( $81.90 )
Seat 7: LeeLay ( $31.57 )
Seat 8: kingstonSue ( $23.80 )
Seat 9: jetblast ( $29.45 )
Seat 10: GJinAz ( $16.80 )
mothernature posts small blind [$0.10].
hero posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ As 6d 3d 3s ]
ekim72 folds.
UnifiedHeart raises [$0.50].
LeeLay folds.
kingstonSue folds.
jetblast folds.
GJinAz folds.
mothernature calls [$0.40].
hero calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 7h, Th ]
mothernature checks.
hero checks.
UnifiedHeart bets [$1.45].
mothernature calls [$1.45].
hero calls [$1.45].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
mothernature checks.
hero checks.
UnifiedHeart bets [$5.60].
mothernature calls [$5.60].
hero raises [$11.20].
UnifiedHeart raises [$39.20].
mothernature folds.
hero is all-In [$11.60]
** Dealing River ** [ 5h ]
UnifiedHeart shows [ 2h, 8d, 5d, Ac ] two pairs, fives and twos.
UnifiedHeart shows 7,5,3,2,A for low.
hero shows [ As, 6d, 3d, 3s ] three of a kind, threes.
hero shows 6,5,3,2,A for low.
UnifiedHeart wins $11 from side pot #1 with two pairs, fives and twos.
UnifiedHeart wins Lo ($11) from side pot #1 with 7,5,3,2,A.
hero wins $27.10 from the main pot with three of a kind, threes.
hero wins Lo ($27.10) from the main pot with 6,5,3,2,A.

thanks in advance

Bob

Calling on the flop seems questionable without more insight into the other players. You're likely only playing for the high half of the pot and could be drawing near dead.

Edit: Though I suppose I can be a bit of a nutpeddler at times... FatBallz is obviously a bit more aggressive.

picture perfect, except I'd prefer to raise the max on the turn. You don't *really* want action with bottom set and a jacker low--you'll take action for the max bet, but if you minraise and some jacker playing 45 comes along and catches an ace or 6, you'll regret not at least trying to push him off his hand.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling on the flop seems questionable without more insight into the other players. You're likely only playing for the high half of the pot and could be drawing near dead.

Edit: Though I suppose I can be a bit of a nutpeddler at times... FatBallz is obviously a bit more aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree here. I'm a PLO8 noob, but playing with bottom set and crap low is just asking for trouble in my book. I might have fired off a pot raise on the flop to see where I'm at, but I'd have to treat it as a bluff.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree here. I'm a PLO8 noob, but playing with bottom set and crap low is just asking for trouble in my book. I might have fired off a pot raise on the flop to see where I'm at, but I'd have to treat it as a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Potting it on the flop w/ bottom set is a huge mistake. With two to come, bottom set is very susceptible to str, flush, and top two pair draws, and your low is very unlikely to pick up the pot. Wrong time to build a pot.

See what happens on a ~perfect turn card like this one? The obvious flopped low draw (A2) is now counterfeited, giving hero's A6 a chance at low. Also, all str's and flushes missed; a set is now a dominant favorite over these draws, unless they come in a huge unlikely combination (and even then, I think it's coinflippish--easily enough to justify getting all-in w/ pot odds). The possibility of set over set is still a problem, but it was an equal problem on the flop. Sure every once in a while you'll run into A245 with suits that you'll be screwed against, but using range-of-hands analysis, shoving on a sweet turn like this will be +EV, substantially I believe.

Edit: oh I see you were saying this is a bluff. Well, I don't buy it. Are you really going to pot it on the flop with any 4? It's not a bluff...

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree here. I'm a PLO8 noob, but playing with bottom set and crap low is just asking for trouble in my book. I might have fired off a pot raise on the flop to see where I'm at, but I'd have to treat it as a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Potting it on the flop w/ bottom set is a huge mistake. With two to come, bottom set is very susceptible to str, flush, and top two pair draws, and your low is very unlikely to pick up the pot. Wrong time to build a pot.

See what happens on a ~perfect turn card like this one? The obvious flopped low draw (A2) is now counterfeited, giving hero's A6 a chance at low. Also, all str's and flushes missed; a set is now a dominant favorite over these draws, unless they come in a huge unlikely combination (and even then, I think it's coinflippish--easily enough to justify getting all-in w/ pot odds). The possibility of set over set is still a problem, but it was an equal problem on the flop. Sure every once in a while you'll run into A245 with suits that you'll be screwed against, but using range-of-hands analysis, shoving on a sweet turn like this will be +EV, substantially I believe.

Edit: oh I see you were saying this is a bluff. Well, I don't buy it. Are you really going to pot it on the flop with any 4? It's not a bluff...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just hesitant to play on at all past the flop with bottom set. If we do play on though, I suppose we should wait for the turn card to see what our equity is.

I may just be too weak-tight, but it's a flop fold for me. The combination of muliple draws against you, plus drawing to crap low just makes the situation pukish.

Folding bottom set on this flop is never a horrible play. Perhaps you're missing a chance to stack a bad opponent, but if you can stand the higher variance, continuing may be +EV. Against all good players, I think folding on the flop is probably the right way to go.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding bottom set on this flop is never a horrible play. Perhaps you're missing a chance to stack a bad opponent, but if you can stand the higher variance, continuing may be +EV. Against all good players, I think folding on the flop is probably the right way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that part of your post is what I need to concentrate on. If I know that people will call off their chips with 87 low and top 2 pair, then I can probably continue. But I think I'd need a pretty good read at the table first. Again, being a PLO8 noob, I'd just rather avoid the situation entirely if I'm unsure of my opponent.