50-100 Vs Solid Pro - Page 3

DcifrThs · #21 02-01-2005, 03:18 AM

hiatus,

i really like the line for a few reasons...it looks like a hand you were trying to protect and now check call with on the river.

he will value bet any hand he'd call you're river bet had you decided to bet it. he would fold any hand he had no intention of callin with or betting.

if this is as true as i think it is given the action and player description, i really like the river c-r.

other reasons i like it is because you will sometimes play a flopped great/good hand in the same way. tough for him to put you on a hand here and since he likely has at least a pair here (no real draws for him to call on the turn), he will probably bet that pair when you check on the river. the bad situation is that he has a hand he'd call with but check behind to get a free showdown...

what hands are those?

-Barron

TStoneMBD · #22 02-01-2005, 03:27 AM

again i disagree that villain will bet the river with any hand he would call with. most people on this thread seem to think that checkraising the river is an unusual play and villain will never see it coming, but my thoughts on the matter is that checkraising this river is fairly standard at this high a level. that is not to say that villain wont bet with strong hands on the river, as he certainly will, but i dont think he will necessarily pay off a raise simply because its suspect. your river checkraise is a solid play and certainly represents a bigger hand than if you had bet out. just because you inflated the pot by an extra 2BB doesnt mean villain will be more inclined to pay you off. if you take metagame considerations into the matter, checkraising here will have significant implications. however, regarding the hand in question, i still feel that betting out is the +EV play in most situations.

DcifrThs · #23 02-01-2005, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as he certainly will, but i dont think he will necessarily pay off a raise simply because its suspect.

[/ QUOTE ]

i never said he'd pay off the raise...when he does its a bonus...either way i think the play is good b/c you're not losing bets by not betting b/c he's not calling...

-Barron

Gabe · #24 02-01-2005, 04:35 AM

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UTG in this hand is a very solid Pro. Tight, but not ultra-tight...aggressive, but less than the average pro. Reads hands pretty well, hates paying off and not afraid to fold when he thinks he is beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

HiatusOver · #25 02-01-2005, 04:47 AM

What are you getting at Gabe?

Ulysses · #26 02-01-2005, 05:05 AM

Classic JV screwplay. River checkraise seems pretty standard.

William Jockusch · #27 02-01-2005, 05:06 AM

I like it alot.

Preflop -- I think with the dead money you should call.

Flop -- if he is "not afraid to fold when he thinks he is beat", I totally agree with your plan.

Turn -- yup.

River -- the only debatable play. No clue whether it's better to lead or check raise here. I will be interested in what others have to say.

Steve Giufre · #28 02-01-2005, 11:17 AM

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I don't know; you checkraise the flop, bet the turn and then check a total blank on the river! That looks really bizarre.

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I'm pretty hung over but a couple thoughts. I'm like 99% sure you check raise the flop, bet turn and check river with a queen here. You really arnt one for checking the the turn with any kind of hand you like here. I think I remember you telling me you have some history with this player. I'm sure he is gonna value bet AQ or AK on the end, and those are definitely his most likely holdings. I really think your river checkraise is correct agaist this player.

BarronVangorToth · #29 02-01-2005, 11:32 AM

Pre-flop: due to the dead money, I think you're right to call. I think you have to do it, if only for future considerations / warnings to players that you will defend.

Flop: very good.

Turn: here is where I'm going to differ with some advice above -- what about check-raising the turn? Check-raising the flop might give the "I have a Q" feel but then you check to the K since you "put your opponent on A-K," which he could likely have.

I'm not certain, but I think I'd like the check-raise the turn vs. trying for it on the river, which might be suspect, as Barry suggested, and might draw 0BB.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

LarsVegas · #30 02-01-2005, 11:32 AM

Two things:

1) The preflop call is obvious. You are getting 4.5-to-1 on the call, and a solid pro should also be loosening up on his opening raising standards (pairs at least from 66 and up is viable raising hands here).

2) How would you play QJo in the same spot with the same board? Asking even more specific, are there any hands of a more immediate made hand value you could checkraise on this flop that couldn't beat that K on the turn?

lars