MH Stakes, NL vs. Limit - some basic questions comparing the two.

Nigel · #1 08-17-2005, 02:33 AM

I'm thinking about mixing in some NL play with LHE and have some questions about how the two games compare.

How big a game is 5/10 NL and 10/20 or 10/25 NL? In other words, how do these compare to LHE levels and what would be some conservative bankroll requirements for each level?

What type of swings can one expect in these games? What's a typical good day and bad day, and what are the extremes?

Would it be reasonable to start out playing NL at 5/10 or higher, perhaps playing a short stack, and expect to be able to at least be a small winner if you are a fairly competent LHE player?

Sorry if these questions are all quite basic, but I really didn't have any luck finding a similar thread even though one must exist.

Thanks,

Nigel

Allinlife · #2 08-17-2005, 02:45 AM

I'll pass the 5/10nl and 10/20 limit comparison since biggest limit game I've played is 3/6.

swings-> usually plus minus 2 buyins a day..

typical good day would be finishing +2 and a bad day would obviously be -2 buyins.

extremes are finishing up 8~10 buyin in a day and people usually stop playing after they lose 2~4 buyins, but 6 buyin downswings are relatively common and winning players losing 10 buyin at a level is not unheard of.

I think it would be pretty hard to jump straight to 5/10nl with just a LHE background and expect to make profit. I suggest you start at .50/1 nl instead and learn the fundamentals at a cheap cost.

The swings are much less brutal than LHE..I think it's because it is easier to punish bad plays in NL with big bets, leading to higher hourly rate. 2bb/100 is considered standard win rate in LHE while 5~10bb/100 is acheivable in NLHE.

good books are Bob Ciaffone's NL/PL poker co-authoered with Stewert Rueben, Improve your poker is also a nice book you can pick up along the way.

AZK · #3 08-17-2005, 09:10 AM

Just an addition to allinlife, I basically agree. Normal days are +/- 2 buyins. It is really a function of how you play, be it tag, lag, etc... I think I tend to play a little looser than most, so for me good days in NL, like really good days that only come around once a month or so are 10 buyins or more. These days make you feel like superman. If you think running good in limit is fun, try it once in NL. Heaven. Also I would start lower like he said to get used to the play, but if you are playing high stakes limit try playing the 2/4 NL (you can buy in short if you want to learn the play), I doubt you would even care if you played .5/1.

Yeti · #4 08-17-2005, 09:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I tend to play a little looser than most, so for me good days in NL, like really good days that only come around once a month or so are 10 buyins or more. These days make you feel like superman. If you think running good in limit is fun, try it once in NL. Heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I had a 11 on the 1st and an 8 on Monday.

Of course, the opposite is also true. Those minus 5-7 buyin days hurt like hell.

Sadat X · #5 08-17-2005, 01:10 PM

I actually just made the switch from 5/10 6max limit to 200 and eventually 400NL and I would never go back. The swings are about the same between 5/10 limit and 2/4 NL but my winrate is much higher and I feel like I have a lot more control over what's going on.

Aggression is rewarded much more in NL. My roomates were telling me that my 2.9 postflop aggression was too high for limit, but I've settled in around 4.3 for NL and its working well for me.

I think a good 3/6 or 5/10 LHE player can easily beat the 1/2 NL games. Definately give it a shot Nigel.

Dave Mac · #6 08-17-2005, 01:33 PM

I was going to start a thread a little like this so instead i will just try to hijack this one. i am also considering trying to learn nl. however, i have been playing 50-100 to 100-200 LHE and playing 200 nl seems like a boaring waste of time. i have played a bit of nl, and i am ok, but what would be the best way to get good with out dropping 10k?
thanks
dave

djoyce003 · #7 08-17-2005, 01:43 PM

If you really want to get good, start at a lower limit NL until you are beating it. You can also try the short buy-in strategy at a higher limit, but that's really not going to teach you how to get good. Play at a limit that is moderately interesting to you, and see how you do. If you are getting killed, move down. Try the party 400 or 600 game maybe. If you don't win there, drop down till you are winning consistently at a level, then move back up would be my advice. If you are trying to learn, why make it expensive.

Sadat X · #8 08-17-2005, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You can also try the short buy-in strategy at a higher limit, but that's really not going to teach you how to get good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. You need to learn how to play with deep stacks. That's what a good player has in front of him most of the time.

AZK · #9 08-17-2005, 04:46 PM

If you are going to play like an idiot at small stakes games cause the money doesn't mean anything (I know I do this) then don't start there, just buy in short at 3/6 or 5/10 and as you become more comfortable buyin for the full. You are going to drop several buyins (1/2 buyins) it's inevitable in the learning curve. Just don't stack off with one pair in NL and everything else is just a magnification of limit...odds, mistakes etc....

edit: I notice you are from rockville - check your PMs

cero_z · #10 08-17-2005, 05:08 PM

Hi Nigel,

[ QUOTE ]
Would it be reasonable to start out playing NL at 5/10 or higher, perhaps playing a short stack, and expect to be able to at least be a small winner if you are a fairly competent LHE player?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're not going to play a short stack, then whether or not you can win at 5-10 depends on what type of limit player you are. That is, did you just play ultra-tight, rarely if ever getting out of line or mixing up your play? This type of play can get the money at pretty high levels of limit poker (though I could be wrong about the extent, as I don't play too much limit any more), but it will get you burned up against the better 5-10 NL (and higher) players. Also, whereas a great limit player can't really cause you too much trouble personally if it's not shorthanded, a great NL player can make your life miserable, since he/she can be involved in many more hands.

If you play good limit poker, you can definitely win at 5-10 NL playing a 30BB stack with good game selection. Just look for tables where players are liberally calling large pre-flop raises. But, this won't make you much better at deepstacked NL, which is where it's at for the big winners.

Other than that, I agree with everyone else's answers (especially AZK's in regards to playing for stakes that matter).