A bunch of beginning Hold'Em questions...

[ElSapo]

I started playing poker maybe six months ago - - a bunch of friends and I thought it would be a good way to kill a Wednesday evening. Seemed like a decent excuse to drink beer, watch sports and just hang out. Anyways, as I'm apt to do with many things, I got hooked on it. I became enthralled with poker - started to read about it, hit Atlantic City a couple of times, played in some other games, and generally I've been doing ok.

So here I am, six months deep into this game, and I've got more questions than answers. This is normal in anything else, so it must be the same in poker. So I'll post a couple here - they're general questions, I'm just looking for general thoughts.

1. It took me months to realize most of what I learned in books on limit Hold'Em didn't apply completely to No Limit or Pot Limit games (which, low limits that they are, are what I play in sometimes). Any thoughts on good resources for these types of games? I got Brunson's "bible," as I see it referred to, leading to the next question...

2. His section on no-limit play is fascinating, I think, dealing so much with agression and control and looking for opportunities to win big pots. How do you feel about this book? Is it really a good way to play, throwing chips at the table to pick up smaller pots, so when a big gamble comes up it's "paid for already"?

3. What kind of improvement should I be looking for? Are there ways to keep improving when finding games near me and in my bankroll range is difficult?

4. No poker book I've read deals with the fact that you can't win all the time. How often do good players win? I hit six sessions once without losing (most times posting small wins) but I don't know if better players would win more or extend the streak...

All in all, I suppose as much as I love this game I'm looking for general guidance for a beginning player. Aside from books and the Web, I'm not sure where to turn...

Anything helps...Thanks.

[HDPM]

1. Ciaffone and Reuben Pot Limit and No-Limit Poker. (Get Ciaffones Omaha book too if you ever play PLO.)

2. You can't play like Doyle and win against tough competition. You ain't Doyle. It is a very aggressive approach that doesn't work as well now if you can find a NL cash game. (I have very little big bet experience disclaimer.)

3. Read, study, play, no magic formula.

4. Gambling Theory and Other Topics by Mason Malmuth. You need to understand standard deviation and bankroll requirements. 300 BB losing streaks are common for winning players.

Buy a lot of books, read and re-read them. Read these forums and post here. GL>

[Fitz]

I would agree with all the above advice, but I would expand on the comment about 300 BB losing streaks being common. They do happen, and they will inevitably happen to the original poster. However, they are not something that happen regularly; when a losing streak does come, the first step is to analyze your play and see what the leaks in your game might be.

My records cover over almost 300 sessions, more than 1000 online hours and more than 135,000 hands, and I've had one 300 BB losing streak during that time. I have had several losing streaks maybe 5 or 8 that were 100 to 250 BB. Overall, approximately, 70% of my sessions are winning sessions.

Good luck,

[TobDog]

As far as finding information on pot and no limit, Ciaffone does write very good information. For your second question, you will probably get the inforamtion from the same author, he talks about being aggressive in stealing when no one is interested in taking the chips in the pot, at the higher limits, someone will be fighting for them. For your imporvement, you should keep records and monitor your play fluctuations. Mason's Gambling Theory and other topics will tell you what you look for in improvement of your game, not just your bankroll nd your winning sessions, but I believe after reading his information more now than before, that your standard deviation should go down as you get better in the same game. By reducing your fluctuations, you risk less each time oyu play. This allows you to move up in limits, grow the same way and move up again. As far as not winning every time, ther are two ways you can look at it, remember a session is whatever you make it. If you win $1000 today and proceed to lose $500 each of your next 5 sessions, you do not have any profit, I like to look at a session as whe I first sat down and started to keep records that ends when my family fights over cutting up my assets. If this does not work for you, then the only place I remember seeing not wining all the time addressed, I know I saw it elsewhere too just can't remember where, is Lou Kreiger's book, the second one More Hold Em Excellence. He has put some very good things in his book, and it does cover things like statistically how many hands are rightfully yours, yo won't win every session, probably will help you put some of those things in perspective. It does sound like you are going about it in the right manner, but other than learning from the books, learning with money in front of you will give you the information you are looking for.

[soda]

300 BB losing streaks common? Been playing full time for a year and a half and haven't seen a 300 BB losing streak yet. I had a terrible streak that included some bad play with bad luck and lost less than this. If you can win at a rate of 1.5 BB per hour or higher - 300 BB losses will be very rare. If your skills are less than 1.5 you could easily lose this amount or more. Heck, you could lose your house and car if you were a bad player. I would recommend making 1.5 BB per hour for 500 hours or so before moving up to the next level. This will help you to avoid 300 BB swings. It will take a lot of patience. But, you won't become a good poker player without a huge reservoir of patience.

1) I love the very aggressive style of play in NL. It wins the most amount of money in most games. If the game is full of very good players, not just tight players, but very good players - you may have trouble with this strategy. On the other hand, if you enjoy any kind of playing advantage over your opponents, then the Brunson approach is fantastic. Take care though, you must fully understand this approach, be confident about your ability to win and be very good at reading people. Understand the psychology of the table and how others are perceiving you. Play off their fear. Have no fear yourself.

NL, PL, and limit are three different games. You should treat them as such.

2) This is a fantastic approach. Even if you don't like to gamble with the worst of it, you should still be picking up more than your fair share of small to medium pots. After a while you'll learn to turn the small pots into medium size ones before the flop if the table is giving you these uncontested.

3) You should look for improvement in all areas of your play. How is your starting hand selection? Your Blind play? Shorthanded play? Are you making money with bluffs? Are your reads accurate? Do you understand the other players? Even if you don't agree with them. Were you the best player at the table today? If not, who was? Can you be better than him or her next week or next month? What did he or she do that was better than you?

Turbo Texas Hold'em from Wilson helped me when I was starting out. You can google it for more info. Also, playing online at Paradise, PokerStars or Party will help your game. There is always a game within reach if you really want it. Be careful though, online games are tougher. Start at .50/1 and work your way up.

4) You can't win all the time. At Commerce, which is a very loose aggressive type place - I win a little better than 2 out of 3 sessions. That's all. Online, I win 8 or 9 out of ten sessions. More hands + tighter games, means I almost always win. In Vegas, I almost always win. Tighter games give a good player a better chance of coming out ahead. Looser games mean you can win more money overall, but a winning session will happen less often.

The 2+2 forum is a great place to be if you are looking to improve your game. Post often.

Best of luck,

soda

[AmericanAirlines]

Well... My best winning streak was 16 games in a row at 5-10 Stud, at the Mirage.
.
Right after that I had my longest losing period. Went down about $2000 in an unknown number of games. (Lost spreadsheet in disk crash).

But the down streak wasn't staight down. Was more like up a little down a little more. Zig-zagish but definitly down.

This was a mixture of 5-10 and 10-20 stud with various low limit HE games (1-4-8-8, 4/8, 6/12).

The winning streak occured after I had been on the road for 6 months and away from Vegas. I suspect when I got back, no one had a line a line on my play, or forgot how I played. But as time when by it was seen that I was walking with money regularly, and I suppose that stood out. Made me a target I suppose. Maybe just gave them time to figure me out. Can't say for sure. Left Vegas for a new job not to long after.

For what it's worth, I think you have an edge when you are new to a game, if you don't always play the way the locals do, but you know how they play.

I believe game selection is a fact. Played 3-4 games over as many weeks on the Grand Victoria while I was working in Indy... never lost a session. No one knew me, and I believe it was a new market. Simple tight play and good board reading (stud again) led to profits. Definitely a feather in the cap of the "better players get the money" concept. No fancy plays, no nothing... 'couse it's a small sample. But the lowest limit was 5-10, so you had folks playing kitchen table poker at that level IMHO.

However, at Ceasar's river boat sometime earlier during my Indy stay, got my clock cleaned.

Also found Tunica to be a bit harder to win at, even being the an unknown quantity. A more mature market.

Anyway, more than on Vegas local I knew swore that you always chipped your wins up slowly, but downdrafts were very steep.

Perhaps that's a dynamic of straights and flushes, since you start many more than ever fill out and win. Lose, lose, lose, lose, hit a few and back fill...

'course in HE, seems like all hands are drawing hands given that even AA loses 7 out of 10 in a full table no-foldem-scenario.

Certainly would seem to place a premium on getting out as early as makes sense... but can't quite back that idea up with math or effective techniques to know when the soonest point is! Something I need to work on, for sure.

Sincerely,
AA