Another JJ: Read if you like reaming terribly played hands

Villain 16/4.63 - 80 hands WTSD 24% Villain has showed down three times with trips or better for what its worth.

I'm probably gonna get yelled at for this one. I thought I would get an extra bet from a pair by raising, and be able to fold to a three bet if he had something better than a pair of tens. Every once in a while I raise, telling myself I can fold to a 3-bet. I almost never do. This time I sucked it up and folded.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

[private joker]

With that read, I think it's all right to fold an overpair to a turn 3-bet.

I don't think this is a bad fold. You could be up against QQ, set of TTT, or an unlikely JJ. Hard to get away from JJ here, but I can't think of many hands that this guy with pfr 4.6% will raise with, that you can beat.

[Nick C]

It's hard to get a solid read, over just 80 hands, on someone who's only voluntarily played about 13 of them.

And a lot of players would try to checkraise a turned set of tens. And a lot of players wouldn't just check and call with tens on the flop, even versus a preflop 3-bettor.

That said, it looks like this opponent did check-call his TT and then bet/3-bet a turned set.

He did open from the hijack, though, so this hand began in sort of semi-steal territory. I wonder if Villain would play TPTK aggressively on the turn, versus a suspected re-steal.

But I think AT is probably not what he has. And we have to consider 66, 55, and even AA-QQ as well.

I doubt I would have made the fold you did, but it seems all right to me, based on your read.

[waffle]

how about spending those 2 bets calling the turn and then calling the river?

[TomBrooks]

How many people three bet top pair tens after you three bet preflop and raise the turn? Especially with his stats, a pretty small pot, and knowing you'll probably have to call another bet on the river, folding looks good to me.

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
how about spending those 2 bets calling the turn and then calling the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

hero only spent 1 bb (on the turn). that's all it took to know he was drawing incorrectly to 2 outs.

your way, you lose 1 extra bb and if you were ahead on the turn, you allowed villain to draw to his 5 or 6 outs very cheaply.

your thinking is "calling station" mentality.

[MrEngenic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how about spending those 2 bets calling the turn and then calling the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

hero only spent 1 bb (on the turn). that's all it took to know he was drawing incorrectly to 2 outs.

your way, you lose 1 extra bb and if you were ahead on the turn, you allowed villain to draw to his 5 or 6 outs very cheaply.

your thinking is "calling station" mentality.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I really hope you are kidding.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how about spending those 2 bets calling the turn and then calling the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

hero only spent 1 bb (on the turn). that's all it took to know he was drawing incorrectly to 2 outs.

your way, you lose 1 extra bb and if you were ahead on the turn, you allowed villain to draw to his 5 or 6 outs very cheaply.

your thinking is "calling station" mentality.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero put 2 BB's in the pot on the turn. This is the same it would have cost him to showdown.

I agree with calling down the turn and river here (betting if checked to). I think villian is doing this with an overpair, a pair of TT's, or seeing where he stands with AT. Raising will just push him off hands we beat, and open us up to being 3-bet when behind, and possibly being pushed off the best hand.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
your thinking is "calling station" mentality.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is from one of your posts about a month ago:

My recent Satori (enlightenment) involves a concept explained in King Yao p. 273-275, SHORT-HANDED LIMIT HOLDEM, Mistake #7: Not Using the Option of Calling and Checking."