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#1
11-18-2005, 08:30 PM
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check/raise, check/call?
villain is TAG. the other guy at the table joined not too long ago, i had been playing the button HU for a while before. i was lagging it up against him so he probably thinks i'm a bit wild, and he's seen me c/r a lot of flops against him. he was folding a lot HU, but he seemed to finally adjust and make some calldowns.
Prima 20/40 3 handed Villain raises, SB folds, I call in BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] check, he bets, i cr, he calls. (4.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] i check, intending to call if he bets. if he checks behind i'm betting a safe river. i haven't played in a while, is this just weak or OK? 
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#3
11-19-2005, 01:16 PM
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Re: check/raise, check/call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but he seemed to finally adjust and make some calldowns. [/ QUOTE ] This seems to me to be a good reason not to C/R the flop, but check-raise when you hit. [/ QUOTE ] maybe you guys are onto something, i'll rethink the flop c/r.
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#4
11-19-2005, 01:21 PM
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Re: check/raise, check/call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but he seemed to finally adjust and make some calldowns. [/ QUOTE ] This seems to me to be a good reason not to C/R the flop, but check-raise when you hit. [/ QUOTE ] maybe you guys are onto something, i'll rethink the flop c/r. [/ QUOTE ] no need to rethink. checkraising there is like raising the river w/ nuts closing the action. auto-matic.
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#6
11-19-2005, 02:07 PM
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Re: check/raise, check/call?
See the thing is that on this flop, a check-raise is really only going to knock out worse hands (Q and J highs) and maybe some stronger aces, although you say he is adjusting to your aggressive play so its tough to tell whether he'll take AQ to showdown here. Since you're seeing the river with your flush draw, you're likely going to take the pot away from those worse hands anyway the times he doesn't bluff the turn and river. So while I agree the flop check-raise is +EV, check-calling the flop and turn UI is probably higher +EV since you'll be stealing the pot so often anyway, but with a smaller investment on your part.
The flop check-raise would be automatic here if you held jack high since then you won't ever be winning unimproved.
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#7
11-19-2005, 01:16 AM
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Re: check/raise, check/call?
What is the idea behind the flop checkraise? Did you add up all your draws and showdown value and decide you wanted to get paid for your pot equity? Are you hoping to drive some particular set of hands out of the pot? These are real questions, not rhetorical ones as I don't quite know what to do with this awkward hand.
The four on the turn however is much easier. You've leapfrogged a ton of common stealing hands and strengthened your draw. Do not give a free card to all those aces, straight draws, and flush draws that are chasing you. He may have a king in which case you'll be raised. But is bet-call, check-fold really any more costly than check-call, check-call? [ QUOTE ] villain is TAG. ... i had been playing the button HU for a while before. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you do this?
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#8
11-19-2005, 01:04 PM
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Re: check/raise, check/call?
[ QUOTE ]
What is the idea behind the flop checkraise? [/ QUOTE ] i'm surprised so many people didn't like the flop CR, i thought that's pretty standard. his range on the button 3 handed is pretty damn wide, if i don't have the best hand with my ace high oh well i have the nut flush draw and an overcard. i don't know why i should check/call here. [ QUOTE ] The four on the turn however is much easier. You've leapfrogged a ton of common stealing hands and strengthened your draw. Do not give a free card to all those aces, straight draws, and flush draws that are chasing you. [/ QUOTE ] i explained in my response to flawless why i checked because i leapfrogged a ton of his common stealing hands. i don't know if that makes checking correct but that's what i was thinking. i suppose he might call down here with ace high, so maybe i give him a free card there, but obviously i'd rather have him stay in with his ace highs now since he has 2-3 outs. given what he thinks of me though, i think he's fairly likely to bet the turn with a draw after i check. [ QUOTE ] He may have a king in which case you'll be raised. But is bet-call, check-fold really any more costly than check-call, check-call? [/ QUOTE ] yeah i realize that's not really an issue at all. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] villain is TAG. ... i had been playing the button HU for a while before. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you do this? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] i was the only one sitting at a 6 handed 20/40 table, he sat down and we started playing. by the time i realized he was "TAG" i was up nearly a buy-in... like i said he was folding too much HU. sometimes players you don't like seeing at a 6 handed table are a treat to play HU. i just play HU against whoever wants to play really, if it turns out they are really good and no one else sits i can just leave. but most unknown internet players are bad, so i'm willing to take that risk.
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#10
11-19-2005, 02:53 AM
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Re: check/raise, check/call?
[ QUOTE ]
Check-call the flop unless he lays down stuff that isnt TP. [/ QUOTE ] I don't get what you mean, he lays down tons of stuff that isn't TP. I like the check raise. You have about 12 outs, or just about 50% equity against any pair, but you also get to fold out a ton of hands that might have won if you decided to check call the flop and turn, but fold the river UI. I think you have to follow through and bet this turn, especially considering that you hit your 4, and are now beating all of his non pair hands, along with having 14 outs, or close to 30% of the time beating any of his paired hands.
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