IWTSTH (in response to "Dealer keeps showing people my hand")

I was playing at my local B&M a couple of weeks ago and I was at the table for about 30 min. Throughout play, I noticed that 2 guys who sat next to each other always would enter the same pots, always raise the pots, but they never showed down any hands once the other people involved were knocked out, one of them would fold. It was obvious that they were buddies because they would always talk in between hands and during hands in which they were not involved.

I thought this was obvious collusion, but I didnt want to bring it for discussion with other players at the table with those two sitting right there.

My question is, how would I go about proving this? I could ask to see their hands if they ever made it showdown. But what would this prove? It would just prove to myself that I was right. Do I go to the floor and explain it to them? If I do this, i dont have any proof of collusion.

[ QUOTE ]
I was playing at my local B&M a couple of weeks ago and I was at the table for about 30 min. Throughout play, I noticed that 2 guys who sat next to each other always would enter the same pots, always raise the pots, but they never showed down any hands once the other people involved were knocked out, one of them would fold. It was obvious that they were buddies because they would always talk in between hands and during hands in which they were not involved.

I thought this was obvious collusion, but I didnt want to bring it for discussion with other players at the table with those two sitting right there.

My question is, how would I go about proving this? I could ask to see their hands if they ever made it showdown. But what would this prove? It would just prove to myself that I was right. Do I go to the floor and explain it to them? If I do this, i dont have any proof of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you described may indicate collusion or it may not, the point is you don't have to prove collusion to anybody, all you have to do is get up and get out of the game if you feel there is something not right.

[ QUOTE ]
I was playing at my local B&M a couple of weeks ago and I was at the table for about 30 min. Throughout play, I noticed that 2 guys who sat next to each other always would enter the same pots, always raise the pots, but they never showed down any hands once the other people involved were knocked out, one of them would fold. It was obvious that they were buddies because they would always talk in between hands and during hands in which they were not involved.

I thought this was obvious collusion, but I didnt want to bring it for discussion with other players at the table with those two sitting right there.

My question is, how would I go about proving this? I could ask to see their hands if they ever made it showdown. But what would this prove? It would just prove to myself that I was right. Do I go to the floor and explain it to them? If I do this, i dont have any proof of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a situation like this, go tell the floor manager. Explain it calmly and ask if one of the two can be moved from the table, not as an accusation so much as a precaution. If he says they can't do that, unless the game is really good, ask him for a table change.

Gary

[Randy_Refeld]

This also highlights a weakness in IWTSTH it rarely is successful at preventing collusion. There is another rule that has more teeth to it (if it isn't in your rule book it shoudl be added right now: "The management of this casino reserves the right to review any hand." I have had potential collusion pointed to me on multiple occasions. I can remember two times that I felt the action warrented a reivew. One time I decided the players involved were idiots and one time I decided the players invovled needed to cash out.

[Percula]

Been there done that.

You need to alert the floor. Tell them the things you have seen and leave it up to them to investigate and enforce.

Good floor staff will push an experienced dealer and have the dealer watch and report. If there is a problem the floor should act.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
This also highlights a weakness in IWTSTH it rarely is successful at preventing collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking to the floor is obviously the best --- But, I may ask to look at their hands a few times anyway, and tell them why I'm doing so. Although I'm probably not smart enough to prove collusion, they may not be smart enough to know I can't.

The fact that I'm checking may get them to stop.

(Just a thought here, never actually done this.)

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This also highlights a weakness in IWTSTH it rarely is successful at preventing collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking to the floor is obviously the best --- But, I may ask to look at their hands a few times anyway, and tell them why I'm doing so. Although I'm probably not smart enough to prove collusion, they may not be smart enough to know I can't.

The fact that I'm checking may get them to stop.

(Just a thought here, never actually done this.)

[/ QUOTE ]

but they never showed down any hands once the other people involved were knocked out, one of them would fold.

How are you going to ask to see their hands? That is the weakness of the rule. Smart colluders will never be in a position to have their hands shown.

[Luv2DriveTT]

I'm at the Borg with brettbrettr, we are sitting next to each other. The table is wild and drunk (8am), we just sat down and we are obviously friends. Hand becomes heads up on the river with Brett taking the lead, I check raise and he folds.

Next hand we are heads up of the Donks who folded "the best hand" on the turn asks the dealer to see Brett's hand when I muck the river. Brett was insulted at first, but he quickly realized why and actually embraces the fact that he got to show his superior hand to the Donk. The Donk was happy that he learned that there was no collusion involved, and Brett learned that whatever makes the Donk happy is good for the game.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[rmarotti]

You tell stories g00t.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at the Borg with brettbrettr, we are sitting next to each other. The table is wild and drunk (8am), we just sat down and we are obviously friends. Hand becomes heads up on the river with Brett taking the lead, I check raise and he folds.

Next hand we are heads up of the Donks who folded "the best hand" on the turn asks the dealer to see Brett's hand when I muck the river. Brett was insulted at first, but he quickly realized why and actually embraces the fact that he got to show his superior hand to the Donk. The Donk was happy that he learned that there was no collusion involved, and Brett learned that whatever makes the Donk happy is good for the game.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Brett has also learned that TT's recall of the events of a given hand are almost never correct. Hand 1, you were OTB, I bet river, you raise, suspicious donk folds, I fold.