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  #1  
Old 12-24-2005, 04:55 AM
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Default QQ out of position on a rag flop

Villain is completely unknown to me. I absolutely hated the way I played this hand. I think my preflop raise was too small first of all. Anything else I should have done differently? Maybe bet the turn?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($725.70)
SB ($512.07)
Hero ($517)
UTG ($1101.60)
MP ($1308)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $29</font>, UTG calls $23.

Flop: ($73) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $55</font>, UTG calls $55.

Turn: ($183) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $125</font>, Hero calls $125.

River: ($433) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $350</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $783
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

yes, your preflop re-raise was too small. It should have been to at least $40.

flop is ok, turn check is ok, but if you check the turn it is so you can check-raise. given the way you got to the turn, a check-raise is my favourite option followed by lead.

If he checks behind, a check-call on river is pretty standard (unless it's a Q of course)
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2005, 01:09 PM
hit_the_set hit_the_set is offline
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

[ QUOTE ]
if you check the turn it is so you can check-raise

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2005, 04:25 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

Why would you check raise this turn?
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2005, 05:11 PM
jrforman jrforman is offline
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you check raise this turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gives you really no information about villains hand by doing this...I hate this line, either check/call or lead and fold to a big raise or push.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

I think check-raise turn is far better than check-call turn.

Look at it this way, if he's on one pair or a draw I think a check-raise is far superior. The advantage to check-calling I see is catching a river bluff, and I don't think people are going to bluff you much after you called the turn OOP, that shows some strength.

Suppose you check turn, he bets, and you know he's got AT. What would you do?
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:25 AM
wdeadwyler wdeadwyler is offline
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

[ QUOTE ]
I think check-raise turn is far better than check-call turn.

Look at it this way, if he's on one pair or a draw I think a check-raise is far superior. The advantage to check-calling I see is catching a river bluff, and I don't think people are going to bluff you much after you called the turn OOP, that shows some strength.

Suppose you check turn, he bets, and you know he's got AT. What would you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

C/R the turn here is a great way to win the least when you are ahead and lose the max when you are behind. Villain will just laydown worse hands and stack you with better hands. Furthermore, you have no idea how strong he is so you are basically betting your stack in the dark (meaning with no information about villain's range)
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

I frequently get called by worse hands when I check-raise here

And if he folds a draw, the check-raise is still correct.

When you check-call turn, what's your river plan? I think you are putting yourself into more of a reverse implied odds situation by check-calling turn
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:51 AM
wdeadwyler wdeadwyler is offline
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

[ QUOTE ]
I frequently get called by worse hands when I check-raise here

And if he folds a draw, the check-raise is still correct.

When you check-call turn, what's your river plan? I think you are putting yourself into more of a reverse implied odds situation by check-calling turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Frequently getting called by worse hands here is good. I hope thist trend continues for you. I myself get stacked by 2pair/sets when I do this. Every now and then a strong 10 or a draw calls me, but its still -EV IMO.
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: QQ out of position on a rag flop

Yea...to be honest checkraising the turn was the last thing on my mind. I dont see how this can be a good play. I checked the turn to try and keep the pot small. Hopefully if he's on a draw, he'll just check to the river and I can make a decision there, based upon whether or not a scare card came out. I assume when villain is firing on the turn and the river, he either has absolutely nothing or a monster. Check raising loses me the most when he has a monster and wins me the least when he's got nothing since there's no chance of him bluffing a worst hand on the river...am I right in this line of thought?
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