Staking someone in SnG's. Questions

[HoldEmKillah]

So I want to stake my friend to play in SnG's. What would be a good deal to make with him? Some details:

1. He's a good SnG player and will only get better(I'm gonna basically "force" him to join 2+2 and get PT).
2, He's got no money so I'll be putting up the entire cost of his stake (everything he's won in the past on SnG's and MTT's has been cashed out and gone to bills. He's up like 13K in the last year)
3. I'm gonna give him about $500 to start

Now questions about the important stuff:

4. I figure that him starting out at the $20+2's with $500 should be good right?
5. How long should the agreement be for?
6. What happens if we have a 1 year agreement but he quickly tears up the 20+2's and goes up to the 30's and so on until he's built up a roll of like $5000 playing the $100's in just 3 months. Am I still entitled to a % of his winnings for the rest of the year? Silly question I guess but still.
7. How would the percentages of his winnings and such work? I have no clue on those types of details.

Thank you. Any help from those who have been through this before would wonderful.

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4. I figure that him starting out at the $20+2's with $500 should be good right?

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no [censored] way.

[Freudian]

I think staking someone is a horrible idea.*


* with a few exceptions, none of which seem to be present here.

[HoldEmKillah]

why? and why?

[Freudian]

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why?

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If the guy had to choose between paying you or paying his rent, do you think you would come first or second?

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and why?

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Many online staking deals turn bad. Many staking deals to friends turn bad. Basically it is a debt that is very hard to collect. And lending money to a guy that had to use his entire bankroll to paying bills smells like trouble.

The exception would be if you know him well and know him to be a trustworthy guy that temporarily don't have resources to play at the limit where he would be able to win the most money. Ie, bumping an already successful player up a limit. I would have to know that if something goes bad he will be committed to paying back (if that was a term of the deal).

[threeonefour]

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4. I figure that him starting out at the $20+2's with $500 should be good right?

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no [censored] way.

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i think 500 for 20+2s would be fine. we are taking about staking not about having a bankroll to live off of. there is certainly a nontrivial ROR associated with this stake but there is also a greater ROI potential. if OP can handle the 500$ loss (which i am sure he can, or he shouldn't be considering it in the first place) then he should be fine.

for example, players often think its smart to stake a player for a one time event. usually this is for bigger events, but its basically the same as staking a player 22$ to play 1 22$ sng. the ROR here is huge (>50% in fact). also the HUGE problem with 'one-time' stakes is the percentage problem, which could make staking a +EV player -EV. its the same reason why a +EV player who only played the WSOP once a year couldn't easily be -EV because of taxes. basically when the player losses you take on all the liability, but when he wins you only get a %of the win. effectively the staker is 'taxed' for the win but doesn't get a rebate when he loses.


to illustrate my point, think of staking a guy for 500sngs vs staking him for 500sngs one and a time. doing it as a block is much much better for the staker, doing it one at a time is probably -EV even when you are backing the best sng players in the world.


i would stake for a specified number of sng's. say, stake him for 500 sng's which he must complete. after 500 you can reevaluate and decide whether you both want to continue the stake or divide up the money and go your seperate ways or do another 500.

if after 500 sng's he has made 3000$ or something then it doesn't make much sense for him to continue getting staked since once that money is split he will have enough to bankroll himself.


the thing is. 500$ isn't much money, its kind of weird that someone would need such a small amount to get staked. there are so many bonuses out there where a 100$ deposit gets a ~100$ bonus. do a couple of those and you have 500$. or just work a little overtime.

if your friend is in fact a smart kid and a +EV player, then i strongly suspect there are better way to go from ~0$ to 500$

[threeonefour]

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I would have to know that if something goes bad he will be committed to paying back (if that was a term of the deal).

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if those are the terms of the staking deal, then the individual being staked should keep AT LEAST 90% of what he makes. since thats not really a stake. its just a loan. a loan with perhaps a slightly higher risk premium because it is not legally enforcable in the united states


basically if that is the deal then the staker takes zero risk essentially. the only risk is that the stakee loses money AND refuses to pay (breaks the contract).

[Slim Pickens]

$500 should be enough to pay the lawyer you'll need to draw up an argeement that protects both parties and makes everyone happy enough to get started. You can use the next $500 to start playing the 11's, not the 22's.

Why does a player who "made 13K last year" need to be staked for $500? His name isn't HoyCorkins5 or something like that, is it? Any person without the money management skill to save even $500 of seed money from 13K is not the kind of player you want to stake, and is probably not the kind of player who is even a long-term winner.

[HoldEmKillah]

As far as the 13k he made: about 3k or so was from SnG's as a very part time player. The other 10k was from multis (let's not discuss staking him for multis instead, k?). He works full time, has 2 kids and HAD a ton of credit card debt. He paid off almost all the debt with his big wins. His money is tight but it's highly unlikely that he would use any of this staking money for himself/bills. It's not even a concern.

As far as getting paid back, again..not a concern. And yes I can afford the $500 loss.

500 SnG's is a good idea. I like that and will use it.

Anyone have a general rule of thumb for a chop of percentage? 90% for the stakee seems WAY too high. I could be wrong. But I can't believe that would be standard.

[HoldEmKillah]

He's never had any BR management before. All his winnings he took out just like any recreational player would. I'm confident that our deal. along with some coaching, will change all that.

The other part here is this is not just a money-making venture for me. It's more like 75%) I want to make money and 25%) I want to help him become a successful player not just a good one.