A family with a history of addiction ... and me

[yoadrians]

My wife and I were driving back from my parents' house this afternoon after a visit to my hometown. She was very quiet for the first 20 minutes of our 90-minute drive - which is rare, to say the least - so I asked her what she was thinking about.

Basically, my wife, Katie -- a red-headed doll who is the mother of my 1 child and my best friend in the entire world -- went on to say that, throughout this past weekend and last weekend, when she was visiting her parents at home in the Twin Cities while I was on vacation in Boston, several family members had expressed concern about me and a possible gambling problem.

In short, I was stunned. I had never considered myself to be a gambling addict, and, to be honest with all of you, I'm pretty sure I'm not. I mean, I don't play craps, slots and blackjack. I don't bet on sports, unless it's $5 over a Packers game with some friends. I play a little fantasy football - two $50 leagues per season. And when I play poker, I stay within my means, and I walk away from the table/shut down the CPU when I'm tired or sick of playing. I'm not someone who steams, tilts, and 'tries to win it all back' when I get beat. And I'm also not someone who, when they're ahead, continues to go up in levels that my roll can't handle. I play at my limits, I set aside time to play when I can, and that's it.

I do play a lot of poker, but I've never played off of a credit card or anything like that. I started with $50 on Stars and another $50 on Party about a year ago, and since then, I've built a roll up to about $7,000, very slowly, of course, because I really only get the chance to play an $11 or $22 SNG per day because I watch our son, Max, while mom is at work (I get two SNGs in when he's napping around 11-noon each day). And, occasionally, I play in an MTT when I get home from work at night (I work nights, Katie works days, so no daycare for our son, which is fantastic). Also, about once every two months, I play the $2-$4 at Potowatomi in Milwaukee or the 3-6 at Oneida in Green Bay. I really don't have time to play much more than that, but I'll admit I think about poker - mostly all Hold Em - quite a bit and I read these boards every day.

After not saying anything for a little while and just thinking about it, I explained to Katie - who has always been VERY supportive of my poker playing, especially because I've been able to prove to her that I'm a winning player at the levels I play at - that I don't feel like I'm a gambling addict. Mostly, I think I'm probably 'addicted' to poker like some children are to video games, or like some folks are to football, etc. I like what I like - poker, family, friend, movies, football - and I do spend a lot of time thinking about these three things. I've always been that way - I have about a handful of things going on in my life that I'm totally in to, and I tend to immerse myself in those activities/aspects of my life. For example, in high school, it was soccer and girls. Every waking moment of my day was spent thinking about soccer, or playing soccer, or reading about soccer ... or thinking about girls, or asking out girls, whatever. In college, it was newspapers and movies. I got pretty heavy into journalism (something that I've made my career - I'm a copy editor at a major newspaper in Madison, WI), and I began getting into film pretty heavily, watching and discussing film whenever I could. And now, like I said, I spend most of my free time with poker and football, more poker than football.

So, I am comfortable with where I'm at in life - with my wife and child, with my career, with poker. I know I'm a 'safe' poker player, playing within my limits, and I am not sacrificing family/career obligations, savings, credit, etc., to continue to play.

The trouble, though, is that my family has a history of addiction. My grandfather - my dad's dad - died about 4 years ago after a lifetime of alcoholism. My grandmother on the same side has been addicted to non-prescription pain medication since she was 40. My father is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic (he's been clean and sober for 27 years, thank God, but he's still a very compulsive person). My younger brother has battled athletic anorexia and bulimia ... my other younger brother has had sexual addictions. You see where this is going - while every member of my immediate family (outside of my mother) has had some sort of an addiction that, even though they've overcome, hey, they've shown compulsive tendencies and addictive personalities in their life. So ...

Because I play a lot of poker, and talk about poker a lot, and go to casinos, and play on the Internet ... I 'must' be a gambling addict. And it seems as if they're very, very worried about me.

So, how do I convince them that I'm 'OK'? I have a very strong relationship with these people and respect the fact that they've battled their problems and come out on top. But, I also want them to respect the fact that, unlike them, I don't have a gambling addiction.

What do I say to them to reassure them? How do I bring it up (remember, they haven't said anything to me, only to my wife)?

And, above all else, could they be right?

Serious stuff, I know, but I thought with this type of Web site and forum, perhaps other people have either battled a gambling addiction, or have had to reassure family members that they are 'OK' and not in any danger of ruining their lives because of poker.

I guess this wouldn't be such a big deal, but really, my family means a lot to me, and I don't want them to worry. But also, with my family history of alcoholism and overall addictive and compulsive behavior, I must admit that if they're worried, well, maybe I should be, too?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and take care.

-- yoadrians

[mscags]

I think it is a very touchy subject, especially in your situation. I think the best idea is to just try and explain to them (pretty much your original post stating why you aren't addicted) and talk topenly to them about it. Honesty is the best policy, but remember, some people no matter what you tell them will NOT change their minds.

[Joshssj4]

You're fine. Poker, for you, does not seem as though it is an addiction. The way you put it, you like poker like a kid like video games, which is not an addiction but a hobby. I would not worry about this, it's just a concern that has erupted from people who don't know enough about poker, nor enough about your situation, with poker, to even give their opinion.

[DpR]

Print out your original post and give it to you family. You are fine....

[EStreet20]

Good post yoadrians (and screenname for the matter)

I remember when my ex girlfriend's mom (I'm 23 FWIW) decided to start in with the moral superiority horseshit and criticize me for spending so much time playing poker and act like she was concerned that I was addicted. Then she talked about how so many people have lost tons of money and it would eventually happen to me etc etc.

I handled it by telling her that I was saying this with all due respect (even though I couldn't stand her) and that if she doesn't have a knowledge of poker and a gambler's lifestyle (IE BR management etc) that she wouldn't really be able to understand my explanation of the way playing poker for profit "works". All I was really able to get through to her was that the initial deposit I put into EmpirePoker after I got serious about the game was cashed out to my checking account a long time ago and I've never had to invest more money in it since. Some people just don't understand.

Now if you're concerned about whether or not you're addicted believe me I highly doubt it, you sound safe, but you can always take the GA poll on their website, but I think in your post you have a lot of their questions answered correctly for a non-addict anyway.

Good luck,
Matt

[JonPKibble]

If you spend 8 hours a day at a job making money, does that mean you are addicted to your job? Preaching to the choir, I know, but just felt I'd say it. I think the real problem is that most people don't understand it's actually possible to make a long term profit playing poker. Perhaps that's a good thing though. Let them think poker is no different than craps, as long as they're sitting across the poker table that is.

Very interesting post.

I play poker and really enjoy it (most of the time) and get a kick out of winning $$$. But the longer I play, the more I find it's best not to tell anyone about it. If you spend your time reading 2 plus 2 and you have a couple of poker buddies, you get comfortable talking about bankroll management, EV etc etc. Step into the real world and you forget that people don't understand this. They've seen too many movies and don't understand the skill element at all.

Poker is gambling, but it isn't. Everyone here knows what I mean. But try explaining that joe average or your mother in law.

When I tell people I play poker, here's what I get in response.

"Be careful."

"Isn't that risky."

"Be careful"

"Can't you lose all your money doing that?"

"How do you know there are not people who work for PP playing against you?"

"Be careful."

You get the picture.

Even though it's on ESPN all the time, poker is not mainstream and people don't understand it as much as we like to think they do.

I have learned a few things from my experience telling people about my poker playing: People tend to think they know a lot about subjects they know nothing about; People will use anything possible to appear morally superior to you.

I think your in laws reaction is just the common reaction of most people. You just happen to be married to their daughter and they're naturally more concerned.

Here's my advice. Don't ever mention poker to them again.

[slavic]

Guess what, you have an addictive personality. Quite a few of the better players do, it is something that most of the pro's I've met have in spades. It is also something that I have struggled with myself, and I much like you have a family that has exhibited many of the same problems that you have seen. I am very thankful that I am not haunted by drink or pills; I've seen what that does to people, children, and families. However I do recognize that whatever I step into, whatever holds my interest will be an addiction to me in that I do not want to just participate but I want to master what is there.

The trick is to channel yourself into constructive pursuits, gambling may or may not be a good thing for you to follow. There certainly are areas were you will have an advantage but there will always be an area were your friends and family will look into and only see depravity. This is some thing that the model train expert, Civil war history buff, or weekend softball champion never has to face even though their own addiction may be more substantial.

I know it sounds terrible, but it's not worth sugar coating.

[Recliner]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's my advice. Don't ever mention poker to them again.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is easy for you to understand is not for others. Trying to explain it isn't worth the time or effort.

I'd make sure your wife understands and is able to keep her eye on you, but don't talk about it with family and friends as it isn't worth the hassle.

[Soxx Clinton]

Hey bro that is a great topic.

I agree with the others that I don't think you have a physiological gambling problem at this point- I think the issue is more to do with your family and relationships (and they seem lucky to have you in their life as you obviously are considerate and respectful towards them).

But remember, one of the earmarks of addiction is the inability to stop playing despite adverse consequences. If it ever gets to the point where poker causes real problems beyond the occasional well-meaning comment and it threatens to cause a big rift in your family then continuing to play would actually be getting closer to fitting the definition of addiction.

It doesn't sound like it is anywhere near that point and that they are just voicing some concerns- but if gets more heated and it really starts to threaten your relationships then continuing the activity would technically classify as addictive behavior in at least this sense.

I think I would just lay low without actually lying or hiding it (lying or hiding a behavior is another symptom of addiction) and if addressed directly about it, you can explain your position in the above post. After a time these folks will find something else to worry about if no obvious problems appear.

Best of luck to you- I have also dealt with addiction stuff, both personally and in my family and it is all tricky as hell.