AQs line. Played it right?

theweatherman · #1 09-23-2005, 07:21 PM

I'm wondering what yall have to say about this hand.

Preflop I'm buliding a multiway pot with a strong hand.

On the Flop I dont think there is much I'm losing that my draws dont make up for.

Should I keep raising the turn or just call down?

Do you all check this river or bet for value, as I cant imagine anyone not betting a better hand than mine (which of course is exactly what happens)

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (18.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 8c 8h (full house, eights full of aces).
Hero has Qc Ac (three of a kind, aces).
Button doesn't show.
Outcome: SB wins 22.50 BB.

istewart · #2 09-23-2005, 07:48 PM

Only questionable thing is the turn I guess.

His range is probably

AK (discounted) - 4 combos
AQ - 6 combos
AJ - 6 combos
AT - 8 combos
JJ - 3 combos

I'll post a little more later when I finish eating but I think the turn raise is okay -- maybe borderline value-wise, but you could get SB to fold some 4-5 outer.

#3 09-23-2005, 07:57 PM

I like the hand. Most of it is standard. Preflop, an argument could be made for cold-calling, but I personally think raising here is better.

Capping the flop is standard. You have an equity edge over three players and will almost always win when you hit your flush. When you have top pair and a strong kicker, your equity is even bigger. You should cap this even if the flop came 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Nut-flush draws are strong hands, and made very strong with any pair, and even stronger with top pair and a great kicker. Seriously, you would be losing so much money by not capping this flop. Remember, even if your club doesn't come in, you have another five outs to two pair or trips.

The turn raise is a bit more debatable. MP2 clearly wasn't worried about your capping the flop, so chances are he actually does have a strong hand as well. What would you do if he three-bet? What does raising accomplish? I believe I would call this turn bet, but I'm not sure raising is wrong.

The river bet/call is fine. You'll get called and raised by weaker aces here all the time.

tyler_cracker · #4 09-23-2005, 08:07 PM

I like the turn raise because even if we are behind, we have 9 outs to the nuts, 3 outs to a probably-best two pair, and a limper coming along who is drawing extremely thin (or even dead if he just has a flush draw).

The rest of the hand is standard, as everyone has already said.

Student Caine · #5 09-23-2005, 08:27 PM

A couple of quick things:

1) If you have any reads on the players please let us know as it can affect the decision making process (e.g., if MP2 is a tight player who you have not seen raise in 100 hands that affects whether or not we re-raise here with AQs).

2) Don’t post results (even in white) if you want the best feedback. If people know the results this can sway their decisions.

On to the hand:

Pre-Flop Play: I think that AQs is a tough hand when you are facing a raise, because the suited component really makes you want to play the damn thing and play it strong. The concern that I have here is that we could be dominated by AK, which obviously people like to bring in with a raise. You could be up against a big pocket pair like AA-JJ as well – if we are up against AA-QQ I am not really happy (domination sucks)…if we are up against JJ we aren’t in bad shape. I usually just call here for fear of domination, but lack of desire to drop a big suited broadway.

Here’s a question for some of the other poster, I will sometimes re-raise in similar situations (usually if I have QQ, JJ or AK) obviously to build a pot, but also to gauge what my opponent may have…most micro opponents will always cap with AA or KK, but can become tentative and simply call with AK- and QQ-…is this a good move? I don’t think that I employ that play here only because I don’t really gain much if he simply calls – I am screwed against AK or QQ….I like JJ (well better than AK or QQ) and any other suited or unsuited broadways (probable raising hands), but I have no clue if I am looking at the AK/QQ scenario or JJ/Broadway scenario if he simply calls my 3-bet.

Post-Flop: TPGK with the Nut Flush Draw…your equity here is huge, I’m talking family-size. If we run a Pokerstove sim assuming the following hand ranges your Equity is 58%!

MP2: QQ-TT, AJs+, KQs+, QTs+, AQo+, KQo+
SB: 99-22, A7s+, KJs+, QJs+

I discounted AA and KK from MP2 as I think he would have capped with these hands pre-flop. SB’s range is kind of wide, but I still think it is not outside of reason.

With 58% equity and 2 players here you need to get as many bets in as you can, good job!

Turn: The turn looks like a blank to me (it could give someone a straight draw). I still think you are way ahead here, I keep pumping in bets.

EDIT: I should also say that I raise here (as you did) for two separate reasons:

1) I still like my equity in this pot with 2 opponents (granted there is the chance that I could lose SB to this raise).

2) If I do not raise SB is getting 14:1 odds to call, which means that he can draw to damn near anything correctly. Granted, with all of the flop action he should not be here with a gutshot, but I still want to make his odds less correct or incorrect for any draws.

River:I have to be honest with you here…when SB raises, I 3-bet and I call his cap. You have trips with a great kicker. There is a really good chance here that SB is raising with trips and a worse kicker. AJ, A8, and A6 are all possible, but I think that he would have been betting like mad on the flop with AJ or A6…if he did not push the flop, he would definitely have come to life on the turn with two pair. I think that the chances that he actually has the boat here are slim, there is a much better chance that he has trips with a worse kicker.

pete shaw · #6 09-23-2005, 09:53 PM

I think I would reraise the river. If the SB had Ax 2P, and feared bigger 2P, why would he raise on the river. I cant see AK, consider preflop. Maybe your tied, maybe he has A6. But, I like a raise. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Student Caine · #7 09-24-2005, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Only questionable thing is the turn I guess.

His range is probably

AK (discounted) - 4 combos
AQ - 6 combos
AJ - 6 combos
AT - 8 combos
JJ - 3 combos

I'll post a little more later when I finish eating but I think the turn raise is okay -- maybe borderline value-wise, but you could get SB to fold some 4-5 outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think MP's raising range is that tight?...Better question, in the absence of reads how do you figure a villain's PF range? I have been going straight from Miller's starting hand charts for tight games...do you think that this is too tight? too loose?

Dunno · #8 09-24-2005, 01:49 PM

I really like this had. on the flop u will have the best hand w the best draw many many times and caping this is great action. i dont put them on AK because the flop wasnt caped.

The turn is a pretty harmless card (yeah i know i saw the result and it sux [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]) so i wouldnt mind caping here either.

The river the board pairs and u missed the flush. u have the best A 95% of the time and if noone paird hes kicker ur ahead. The only thing i would fear here is a set of jacks but a pocket j would cap preflop so i would be suprised when i lost this one [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

well played.

Edit: if i lost it would be AJ in my mind. the only fear...

TomBrooks · #9 09-24-2005, 03:03 PM

Grunching

TURN: I'd rather call. I think were behind, most likely to TPMP (AJ) or to a set of Jacks (JJ), and therefore drawing to 12 outs. I'd rather not fold SB as I'm thinking he's dead money. (A raise will often fold SB although in this hand it didn't.)

RIVER: Call. SB called a three bet preflop and he knows he's likely to be up against a set of Aces and he is saying he can beat that. His likely holdings are AK (we lose), AQs (we split), AJ (we lose) or JJ (we lose). If he is loose he might have called preflop with AX. We lose to A8 and A6. We only win versus AT, A9, A7 etc. He might raise with AT (we win.) Only if he's a donk will he raise with some lower Ace.

Edit after reading results: What a donk he is calling preflop and especially for calling two bets cold on the flop with an underpair. Anyway, while I didn't figure this for one of his likely holdings, it still fits my assessment on the river that he is saying he can beat a set of aces.

aces_dad · #10 09-24-2005, 03:32 PM

I seldom 3bet a c/r HU on the river without the nuts, as the c/r most often means he can beat the most likely holding (ie any A in this example) hero holds. I'd only do this against a known LAG who I've seen attempts bluff c/r's like this, otherwise you're seldom c/r by a hand you beat.