Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Science, Math, and Philosophy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:21 PM
David Sklansky David Sklansky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 241
Default If There Is No God

then we are using our consciousness and our ability to reason to further animalistic goals. To alter the chemistry in our brain to give us more pleasure. Just like chimpanzees would if they were bred to become smarter and were surgically given voiceboxes.

When we don't murder in situations where we could gain from it, it is either because our well developed brains realize that in the long run we will get less, rather than more chemical pleasure due to the possibility of getting caught, or because there is instant chemical displeasure in the form of disgust, that was a product of molecular evolution in the past, where those who lacked this disgust did not pass on their genes. Period

Or there is God. An unlikely but not out of the question alternative.

Not Ready has this nailed. Why he then screws it all up by insisting that the god in question is so narrowly and precisely defined that the vast majority of even highly religous scholarly monotheists say he is in error, is beyond me.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:39 PM
chezlaw chezlaw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 58
Default Re: If There Is No God

[ QUOTE ]
then we are using our consciousness and our ability to reason to further animalistic goals. To alter the chemistry in our brain to give us more pleasure. Just like chimpanzees would if they were bred to become smarter and were surgically given voiceboxes.

When we don't murder in situations where we could gain from it, it is either because our well developed brains realize that in the long run we will get less, rather than more chemical pleasure due to the possibility of getting caught, or because there is instant chemical displeasure in the form of disgust, that was a product of molecular evolution in the past, where those who lacked this disgust did not pass on their genes. Period

Or there is God. An unlikely but not out of the question alternative.

Not Ready has this nailed. Why he then screws it all up by insisting that the god in question is so narrowly and precisely defined that the vast majority of even highly religous scholarly monotheists say he is in error, is beyond me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, where NotReady has it screwed up is in thinking that because morality is evolved it doesn't matter what we do.

It matters a great deal, and the fact that one day we will all be dead and forgotten doesn't matter.

chez
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:40 PM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 52
Default Re: If There Is No God

" it is either because our well developed brains realize that in the long run we will get less"

I agree for the most part, but you use weighted words like "realize" which could easily become contentious.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:40 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If There Is No God

I believe that I have no right to take away the liberty or life of another unless they severely threaten my own life or liberty. I choose to live by this belief. It is not based on utility, but is partly based on that 'disgust' you mention. However, the choice itself, and the will behind it, do not come from disgust or pleasure.

Explain it to me via your model please.

Aside - your chemical pleasure model does not adequately explain the existence of a strong will, or choices based on will.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:54 PM
eOXevious eOXevious is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 23
Default Re: If There Is No God

[ QUOTE ]
the god in question is so narrowly and precisely defined

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't beleive God can be defined or explained, and that's why so many people who need scientific evidence for God fail to look down other roads of possibility, and is why science is corrupt and instead of science asking questions, and getting answers, they only make answers and fit them to questions.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:58 PM
bocablkr bocablkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 55
Default Re: If There Is No God

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the god in question is so narrowly and precisely defined

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't beleive God can be defined or explained, and that's why so many people who need scientific evidence for God fail to look down other roads of possibility, and is why science is corrupt and instead of science asking questions, and getting answers, they only make answers and fit them to questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

How schooled are you on the scientific method??
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-12-2005, 03:01 PM
RJT RJT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 111
Default Re: If There Is No God

Can we make this post a sticky? It really will save a lot of bantering. (Although, maybe 2+2 makes more $$ the more action the forums gets. Ė The more posts, the better the site looks to advertisers and therefore more revenue. Ė So, ok, no sticky, but I am going to save the link to this post for my future reference.) Thank you, David. Good post.

RJT
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-12-2005, 03:08 PM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 52
Default Re: If There Is No God

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the god in question is so narrowly and precisely defined

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't beleive God can be defined or explained, and that's why so many people who need scientific evidence for God fail to look down other roads of possibility, and is why science is corrupt and instead of science asking questions, and getting answers, they only make answers and fit them to questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

So science is corrupt? What about religion where the words of a few powerfull members not only hold massive weight but are backed by the "divine rightness" of their words?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-12-2005, 03:14 PM
Aytumious Aytumious is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
Default Re: If There Is No God

[ QUOTE ]
...and is why science is corrupt and instead of science asking questions, and getting answers, they only make answers and fit them to questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-12-2005, 03:27 PM
Piers Piers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 246
Default Re: If There Is No God

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with the spirit of the first two paragraphs but possibly not the details. Did a text search for guilt and found disgust instead.

[ QUOTE ]
Or there is God.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you loose it.

The reason people donít murder or do crimes is due to reasons related to those of the first two paragraphs independent of Godís existence

This includes people who believe fully in God existence.

Even if a few of the God believers are actually correct in their claim that the reason that they do not commit crimes is because of their belief in God, this does apply that the existence of God has any bearing on their refusal to commit crimes, it is just their belief (and consequence thereof) that prevents them.

If God existed, people who believe in God would still believe in a god even if God did not exist.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.