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  #41  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

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...why dont we enjoy life...

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Indeed enjoying life doesn't mean neccesarily make it miserable for others.. LOL

This is a very typical and warped view held by many theists.
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  #42  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:20 PM
spaminator101 spaminator101 is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

Who said the US is religious. just because you go to church on Sunday doesnt mean your religious. most peope in America, IMO that claim to be Christians, aren't really. Just because you beleive that there is a God doesn't mean your a Christian. Thomas Jefferson beleived there was a God, but he was a deist. Therefore, thomas Jefferson wasn't a Christian.
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  #43  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

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Ok lets say that there is no God, atleast to Americans. Now remember if there is no God there is no hell or satan. what will happpen. Well, there is no longer any reason for morals.

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Ummm, upon reflection, I am not sure if it is agood idea to argue with the christians. I mean, think about it, they could be convinced and the world would be full of pathological killers, rapists, peadophiles, thiefs etc... all, now, without restraints to what are their natural inclinations!
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  #44  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:37 PM
Aytumious Aytumious is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

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Who said the US is religious. just because you go to church on Sunday doesnt mean your religious. most peope in America, IMO that claim to be Christians, aren't really. Just because you beleive that there is a God doesn't mean your a Christian. Thomas Jefferson beleived there was a God, but he was a deist. Therefore, thomas Jefferson wasn't a Christian.

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Are you claiming the US is not a religious country because it is your opinion that many of the people who go to church are not "real" christians? The data shows that the US is easily more religious than other modern countries and it should be blatantly obvious that this country is much more religious than that of many other advanced nations, even without looking at the various figures that back up this fact. There is even another current thread directly about what we are talking about here.

I honestly don't see the relevance of the last three sentences of your post.
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  #45  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:39 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

MG,

My argument was not that great. I’ll admit to that especially now that you suggested an example of the conflict that can arise. I don’t see it ever becoming an issue though. Stem cell and abortion and things of that nature - the politician usually makes his stance known when campaigning - either with his or against his own Religion.

Either way it really gets into a matter of whether a representative should make decisions on how he thinks his constituents should vote an issue or if he should represent how they want him to vote. This is more of a political issue than Religious. And is a debate in itself.

Of course, if the politician votes by rote of the Church’s position then he needs to be upfront with that to begin with. We take that risk with even an atheist - that he doesn’t vote the way a billionaire banker wants him to versus what others think is right.

My main point was that the Pope does not rule by decree. Your example of contraceptives is really a theological issue relating to God’s relationship to man and the Holy Sacrament of Marriage, things of that nature. The Pope doesn’t simply issue a decree. There are processes, over periods of time. The voters are going to know where the politician stands on the issue.

So long as a politician’s belief does not conflict with the Constitution then his opinion, whether he arrived at it on his own or from teachings of the Church, is the same as anyone’s else.

Yours here for example:

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Personally, I reckon the pope position in this case IS immoral and bad news for a humanity plagued with an overpopulation problem.

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I can argue against your position without using the Church if I wanted to. Something like this is subjective.

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My opinion is "be wary of voting for a politician that is catholic, for you are really voting for the pope", unless he is a bad catholic that is.

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You certainly have that right. In fact as you know that was a big fear when JFK was running for President.

The other reason it shouldn’t be much of a concern is that being a devout believer and an elected politician are for all practical purposes mutually exclusive - at least now adays. The closest thing to that, that I can recall is Jimmy Carter (not specifically Catholic, but very Christian). With him, where his polices failed it was not because of his Religion, but for whatever other reasons. None elected officials are another story. Here I can see not having to “sell one’s soul” to hold the position. Or probably more often the case, not being a snake in the grass to begin with.

RJT
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  #46  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:46 PM
The Don The Don is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

Zeejustin,

I think that in your quest for knowledge you should examine other political philosophies. There are more than two ideologies, you know. Go to www.politicalcompass.org and see where you stand. I am personally an athiest myself, but I believe that there are far greater problems with the Republicans (or Democrats) being in power than tendencies toward religious dogma.
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  #47  
Old 11-07-2005, 11:13 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

Arty,

Surely, you are not suggesting Religion is the culprit. How about things like guns, capitalism itself and the competitive nature of it - for good or bad, poverty, racism to name a few reasons that could be the cause.

RJT
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  #48  
Old 11-07-2005, 11:25 PM
Aytumious Aytumious is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

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Arty,

Surely, you are not suggesting Religion is the culprit. How about things like guns, capitalism itself and the competitive nature of it - for good or bad, poverty, racism to name a few reasons that could be the cause.

RJT

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I'm not sure how you got the impression that I am saying the cause of the various problems is religion. I was simply providing a counterpoint to Spam's belief that without widespread belief in god, a nation is reduced to immorality.
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  #49  
Old 11-07-2005, 11:42 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Arty,

Surely, you are not suggesting Religion is the culprit. How about things like guns, capitalism itself and the competitive nature of it - for good or bad, poverty, racism to name a few reasons that could be the cause.

RJT

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I'm not sure how you got the impression that I am saying the cause of the various problems is religion. I was simply providing a counterpoint to Spam's belief that without widespread belief in god, a nation is reduced to immorality.

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Because you said this:

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How do you explain the much higher crime rate as well as the much higher percentage of religious people in the US compared to other advanced countries?

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And obviously I took it out of context. You have me confused with your cross-posting. LOL. Sorry, not blaming you. Totally my error. Disregard.

RJT
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  #50  
Old 11-07-2005, 11:44 PM
Aytumious Aytumious is offline
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Default Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

No prob.
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