Post-flop play: AA, KK, and AK

[Michael Jensen]

Alright. I have had just about enough. It's time to make some changes. I just finished up a session on PartyPoker that saw me lose close to 13K. Most of my losses were with premium holdings in which a great majority of the money was put in the flop when I found myself in 2nd place time and time again. I am a winning player in games varying from 400NL to 1000NL in both ring games and short handed tables. However, I have lost over 16K in the 2000NL game even though I have only played ~2,500 hands. I would not say this game is beyond my skill level, but I would be the first to say that I need to learn to lay a hand down.

As of late, I have been playing (4) 1000 shorthanded games simultaneously and have done okay. I am up .94 BB/100 over ~43,000 hands. I feel this is pretty decent. In the 600 shorthanded game I am averaging 2.23 BB/100 over ~18,000 hands. This is the game I have been concentrating on lately, but after a couple weeks of calling off and putting my money in drawing to two outs, I decided to head back to the ring games.

I would say that I am a somewhat level headed player, but I have been having the problem of having the 'I don't care if he has a set, I'm still going to put it all in' and it has obviously cost me.

My question... unless you have information on the specific player (i.e. player notes of previously played hands v. opponent). How do you decide whether or not you will commit your money against what I will call a 'blind' opponent.

Examples:

1/ 2000NL

Hero raises UTG with AhAs to 60
Villain calls in MP
SB calls

Flop: Qh8h6s

Hero bets 150
Villan raises to 350


2/ 1000NL 6Max

Villan raises UTG to 20
Hero raises from the next seat to 55 with KhKs

Flop: Qh8c7c

Villain checks
Hero bets 70
Villain check raises to 140

I'm confident I have the skills to make good laydowns in these types of spots in live games, but I am really struggling to lay down in these on PartyPoker.

I have been in several situations where I was check min raised or minraised on the flop in which I held AA or KK on a monotone board where I was up against hands such as 22, 77, and 99 on a K, Q, or J high flop. In the last week, I have been drawn out in 5 of these spots when I relinquished control of the hand and was two-outed by my opponent on turn or river.

I have also seen opponents check raise or even check reraise up to 3 players with a flush draw. Heads up I have seen my opponent check min raise me and reraise me allin after I raised them back then show ace high no draw (unfortuanelty need more than a couple fingers to count how many times it has happened in the last week). If I listed all the nonsense I've seen, I'd put you to sleep. But what I am asking is, how can I determine when I am beat if I am unable to 'look into the eye of the beholder'. I'm stumped. And when I play close to 400 hands an hour, it can be very costly when I hit a streak of second best hands.

I understand the difficulty in getting action when holding AA or KK (or even AK when floping TP) from a player who is playing there hand for value themself BUT has the second best hand. I'm having a hard time distinguishing between the range of hands my opponent can be holding and placing proper percentages to each holding.

Alright, I've run my mouth enough. Any responses regarding post-flop play with these three hands would be greatly appreciated.

Assuming I entered the pot for a standard raise and was calling by a player out of the blinds. What is your thought process when check minraised on a Q8c7c flop? Or other similar flops. In this situation assume you're holding AA or KK against an average, middle of the road player who you have not played much with. And you both have 1K to start the hand in the 1000NL 6Max.

Thanks in advance for your responses. I'm taking a few days off. I'd like to explore these situations before going back for another ride.

BraveJayhawk

"It's not whether you win or lose, but who take the worst beating." - X-files

[Leptyne]

You're trying to figure out whether a complete unknown that makes a move against you (a) has it (b) is trying to get it (c) has jack squat.

LOL

[gomberg]

Well, first off, your winrate seems sort of low. A lot of good players 4-table the 6-max and can make at least 5 PT BB/100.

With this in mind, I would move down in limits and work on your winrate while not worrying about the money.

As far as postflop situations, I take extensive notes, especially when I see a min-raise, on what that means each time for that player. Playing against min-raises correctly in those games is a huge key to success. For me, it's just a matter of noticing opponents' betting patterns and exploiting. A lot of people will minraise or min-CR on flop and / or turn w/ monsters... you have to watch. Others will do it with a draw to get a free card, or to set up a bluff where they've seen people lay down to the min-raise play. Others will do it on the turn to get to a cheap showdown w/ a good but not great hand. Just pay attention to opponents' tendancies...

So, what I think I'm saying is, move down or only play 2 tables and concentrate on taking as many notes as possible during play. When I 2-table, my winrate approaches 10 BB / 100 at a 6-9 handed table over like 20k hands or so (small sample, i know), but I haven't run particularly good or bad in that time.

Good luck...

edit: also, if it's a complete unknown, do your best to play smaller pots until you get a read... Or else you're just going to have to make assumptions on the average playing ability on the site / limits you play and go from there. Very sub-optimal.