Suited connectors vs one-gappers

[ddubois]

Does the disguised nature of the one-gappers create more deception, thus increasing their implied odds once hit? Do you think an overpair is more likely to pay off a T83 or a J97 flop than a T93 or a J87 flop? The pre-flop showdown equity of a T8s versus a T9s against, for instance, AA is only a 1% differential (22:78 versus 21:79), which seems miniscule to me. So, I might wonder if the superior implied odds actually do exist for the one-gappers, would that actually make them a better hand?

It's true you have one less way to make a straight with a gapper, but how relavant is this? The most ignorant connector straight is alot more scarey than the most ignorant one-gapper straight; the only two-gappers you typically have to worry about are AJ over J9 and KT over T8. But 67 on a 89T board, 78 on a 9TJ board, and so on, are great opportunities to lose a stack.

[billyjex]

In Brunson's no-limit section of Super System, he talks highly of "belly buster" straights which are formed by one and two gappers because it's not an obvious straight. When a J,10,9 flops, everyone is scared of a straight. When the flop is 10 8 6, and you have 9 7, you can really get some money out of it. I tend to play these hands (if they're suited) alot if I can get in cheaply.

So, yeah, I'd have to say the implied odds are higher because of the added deception.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
The pre-flop showdown equity of a T8s versus a T9s against, for instance, AA is only a 1% differential (22:78 versus 21:79), which seems miniscule to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
In retrospect, showdown value may be a rather misguided way to look at the hand, as you can't typcially expect to see all 5 cards with an overpair potting every street on your head. I did a little more math on this in this post, and if I'm correct, you'll flop a straight or an open-ended straight draw 50% more often with a connector than with a 1-gapper. That would seem to imply that connectors are much better than one gappers... and maybe I should drop those J8s-type hands completely.

[GlemZurg]

[ QUOTE ]
if I'm correct, you'll flop a straight or an open-ended straight draw 50% more often with a connector than with a 1-gapper.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true. Howevever consider that the extra straight connectors can make over 1-gaps is a dangerous one:

98 can make these straights:

QJT98 (will lose to someone holding AK)
JT987 (overcards don't matter)
T9876 (overcards don't matter)
98785 (overcards don't matter)

97 can make these straights:

JT987 (overcards don't matter)
T9876 (overcards don't matter)
98765 (overcards don't matter)

So both connectors and 1-gappers make the same number of "safe" straights.

Personally I play suited connectors and suited 1-gappers the same way. I don't play 2 gappers myself.

Justin

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
Howevever consider that the extra straight connectors can make over 1-gaps is a dangerous one

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I did state exactly this point in the original post; and that some dominating two-gappers are commonly played, so not all one-gapper straights are entirely safe.

One more thing in favor of connectors: Consider that when we flop an ignorant OESD, the hand that dominates our straight has only flopped a gutshot, and will be frequently pushed out by action more often than we will, before they have the chance to catch. (89 versus AK is the most likely one to "go bad".)

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]
JT987 (overcards don't matter)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm only being nitpicky here becuase I got stacked big time with 97 when someone showed me Q9. Non-nut straight in NL sucks big time.

[Snoogins47]

I think the most interesting thing to note about One-Gaps vs. Connectors is thus:

When you make a straight that is NOT the nuts.. what do you lose to?

With no-gaps, you lose to a higher connector, and to a two-gapper.

With a one-gapper, you are only behind a specific two-gap.

A weird pseudo-paradox, that a connector loses to both a 'worse' preflop hand, and a much better one, whereas a one-gap only loses to a 'worse' hand.

I know specific examples were given, but I just want to stress that. I think it'd be hard to find that one-gaps are more valuable than connectors, but I think that one-gaps are often overrated by many people.

And the term "worse" is very loosely used. Don't get me wrong, just used here in the sense that the way the average player would value them, or in a sense that is purely based on straight potential. Take your pick, either way works.

[GlemZurg]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I did state exactly this point in the original post;

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Quite right. Me bad. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Justin

[LethalRose]

This is kinda funny..once i start reading this thread I get this hand....

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

UTG ($25.45)
UTG+1 ($48.3)
UTG+2 ($13.75)
MP1 ($33.95)
MP2 ($49.71)
MP3 ($22.35)
CO ($9)
Button ($68.25)
Hero ($50.97)
BB ($51.77)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button folds, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($2) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets $0.5</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises to $1</font>, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $17.85.

River: ($24.85) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $24.85


He had Aces...

whenever i get an opportunity to see a flop with hands like these I always take them..you wont get there often but when you do you get paid off people slowplaying trips or other monsters.


Also on another note..if you think the other guy has the same hand as you, moving all in when the 3rd diamond hits sometimes gets them to fold..