Any way to avoid busting out in this situation?

[david050173]

Come on raising with 99 would have been a questionable play preflop. It is a small pair where you want a lot of callers (early in the tournament) so that when you flop the trips you can get a lot of action.

Personally I think you both deserved to lose by trying to slow play trips on the flop with common straight and flush draws out against you. The lack of betting post flop (200 is a courtesy bet) does not allow you to tell anything about hands out there. When the Q came, if I had trips I would be thinking about trying to check this down as cheap as possible. With a made straight, if some one starts betting big you have to think about giving them credit for it at least early in the tournament especially if you have a big stack and are playing against another one.

If I had the 99s I would have to think a lot harder before laying down but with bottom trips when I haven't invested any money in the pot yet, this seems like a hand that you can lay down. Yes you will lay down the best hand a lot of times. But you will also survive a lot times also.

[mack23]

Sounds like we've got a new debate here... need some other opinions on this one! Let's forget about the 44 UTG. I don't think anyone is going to bash limping in that situation Now let's talk about the 99. The tournament was half way to completion. If you have 2 limpers and you are on the button with the 99, you really advocate limping here? Maybe I overvalue 99, TT, JJ but when I have these hands on the button I see it as the perfect opportunity to take down the 3.5 BB in chips sitting out there on the table. You have to assume you have the strongest hand, so why would you limp and let someone with KJx draw you out with a lousy J? I raise in this situation to at least 4x BB every time, and hope to have 1 caller at the most to battle with. It is relatively easy to play on the flop with position after that. Thoughts??

-Mack

[fnurt]

With 50 big blinds in your stack I think either play is reasonable with 99.

[david050173]

The reasons I don't like raising is
1) you can't stand a reraise. There are people that limp with AA from early position.

2) if you get a caller, I don't think this is an easy hand to play post flop unless you basic strategy is to fold to any overcards if your opponent bets and you don't hit your trips.

Betting gives you a good chance to win the 3.5 bb in the pot. Limping gives you the chance to double up when the trips fall.

With JJ and TT I am more likely to raise since if I get a caller, there is a greater chance that no overcard will flop and if a J or T comes, that card is likely to make my opponent a better hand and encourage them to bet along.

[mack23]

OK David, now I will give you your props. There was some good reasoning there. Maybe that is why 99 is my all-time least favorite hand having busted out of 4 tourneys with it [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] My only concern though with limping on middle to high pairs is that you could go 20 flops without hitting a set rather than take down a number of smaller pots when you raise and push out AQ, AJ, AT, KJ, KT, QJ. Thanks for the debate!

-Mack

Fold PF IMHO. I don't care how loose the table is as anybody can catch good cards anytime. You have a decent stack and chip position so why take a chance at this stage of the tourney with small pairs UTG. I think you got what you ask for - flopping a set which is very difficult to give up. Unfortunately, you thought your HUMMER was good enough but it ran into a MACK truck. (Just adding a little humor) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

P.S. I did not notice your handle name. No pun intended. Cheers.

[ QUOTE ]
There are people that limp with AA from early position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible but not very likely specially at this stage. After 2 or 3 limpers, not raising with 99 on the button is a weak play IMO.

[Kiddwyo]

Mack
in the senario 2 things caught my attention.
First you were at loose table, and second the turn was Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. If i were in your situation i would have folded on the re-raise, and here is why. The table being loose, the odds are someone is playing connectors. In the senario the turn was Q giving the J-10 a str8. Yes your trips looked good but there was 4 hands that could beat you. Pocket 8's, 9's, Q's and the str8. Sometimes it is better to fold and to pick a better spot to put all your money in. Was this a live tourney or online?. If it was live what kind of "tells" was opponent giving that you might have missed.
may your Ace's never get cracked.
Scott

[MAxx]

My thoughts are that I usually ignore the possiblity that someone hit a better set than me, and I do not mind going broke on that attitude... this is one risk you have to take to be successfull. Just like, you can't throw away KK preflop because you are afraid of AA. I think the odds dictate that most of the time you will be good, so you should go with what works most of the time.

Secondly, by being more selective about the pp's that you choose to see the flop with... you decrease the chance that if you and another guy both hit sets that yours will be lower. I have to say limping 44 under the gun sounds kind of wreckless to me. But seeing that you did and hit your set... I would have gone broke on the flop protecting them against the 10-J draw.

Flop a set... with any kind of draws out there... my foot is on the gas.

[mack23]

I suppose folding PF would have been the only way to avoid the end result, I'll give that a lot more consideration next time. Thanks for the input.