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[Godfather80]

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do you always fold AJo UTG??

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In a full ring game, yes I do fold AJo UTG. My reasoning for this works as follows:
1.I have terrible position both preflop and postflop.
2.I can't call a raise behind me because of the likelihood I'm either coinflipping or killed.
3.I can't really make the nuts (only TPTK or TPMK usually come out of AJo)
4.TPTK and TPMK are really hard to get value out of OOP.

I don't play 6-max, but I imagine that folding AJo UTG in 6-max is too tight. I'd still imagine that it's a very tricky hand to play well from UTG.

[tripp0807]

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do you always fold AJo UTG??

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I always do as well in full ring UTG. This hand sucks OOP. In my pre-2+2 days I used to think AK-AT was phenomenal UTG because it was two big cards, and they're what make money.

2+2 and PT stats conviced me otherwise. I'll only do it early in a session and then show it to develop an image

6 max, of course (depending on the table) is different.

I got to this post pretty late but I also play NL 25 and thought I'd toss in my two cents.

3 betting with AK preflop is asking for trouble. What hand that reraises do you dominate and/or folds to your 3 bet here? Why build a pot OOP when possibly dominated. Ok, maybe you feel you'll gain information from a 4bet and can fold, but over time you're gonna find that play to be -EV.

Raising AJo UTG is table dependent. Generally though I'd fold it. You raise with it and then smooth call a reraise with it... You're asking for trouble... What do you do on an A high flop? Fold? Why did you raise it then? What happens when you raise AJo UTG and get two smooth calls behind you and an A high flop? You have to play it out of position and could easily be dominated.

So.. hand one with AK, fold or call(read dependent) the reraise and revaluate the flop. I'd lead any A high flop for whatever your normal continuation bet is. Hope someone calls you down with AQ or JJ-KK.

Hand 2 with AJo, fold preflop or if you still feel the need to raise it, I'd dump it to a reraise behind me.

[Cosimo]

(semi-hijack)

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The thing is: you can begin to get an inkling that AJo will lose you money raising it UTG after you play 20,000-40,000 hands. Or, you can accept that if many of the Mods and high volume posters are saying the same thing, then there is probably a good reason for it.

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That's great and all, but the advice is mostly useless because it boils down to me having to keep a log of a billion posted situations, reads, and the play for each. In other words, if the only thing a high-volume player says is "raise" (etc) then I haven't learned much.

Why should I raise? Give us the benefit of your experience; why you give the answers you do. And if you say "bet" or "raise," how much?

A lot of times what I get out of posted hands is that I played it wrong, but not the thinking that would lead me to the right way.

Why is AJo unprofitable for a raise UTG? Does it have something to do with what it hits? Who calls? Something else?

[PoBoy321]

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Why is AJo unprofitable for a raise UTG? Does it have something to do with what it hits? Who calls? Something else?

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Because it is easily dominated against as few as 5 other players and can be very difficult and costly to play OOP.

[Godfather80]

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(semi-hijack)

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The thing is: you can begin to get an inkling that AJo will lose you money raising it UTG after you play 20,000-40,000 hands. Or, you can accept that if many of the Mods and high volume posters are saying the same thing, then there is probably a good reason for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's great and all, but the advice is mostly useless because it boils down to me having to keep a log of a billion posted situations, reads, and the play for each. In other words, if the only thing a high-volume player says is "raise" (etc) then I haven't learned much.

Why should I raise? Give us the benefit of your experience; why you give the answers you do. And if you say "bet" or "raise," how much?

A lot of times what I get out of posted hands is that I played it wrong, but not the thinking that would lead me to the right way.

Why is AJo unprofitable for a raise UTG? Does it have something to do with what it hits? Who calls? Something else?

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Let me direct your hijack to 3 responses before it's posting.

See i thought your idea was so good that I did it before you asked.

Wow.

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do you always fold AJo UTG??



[/ QUOTE ]

In a full ring game, yes I do fold AJo UTG. My reasoning for this works as follows:
1.I have terrible position both preflop and postflop.
2.I can't call a raise behind me because of the likelihood I'm either coinflipping or killed.
3.I can't really make the nuts (only TPTK or TPMK usually come out of AJo)
4.TPTK and TPMK are really hard to get value out of OOP.

I don't play 6-max, but I imagine that folding AJo UTG in 6-max is too tight. I'd still imagine that it's a very tricky hand to play well from UTG.


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[Cosimo]

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Because it is easily dominated against as few as 5 other players and can be very difficult and costly to play OOP.

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I guess my point (and this wasn't really under contention) is that we all need to develop card-sense for ourselves. I think advice here points us in the right way, and can save us some money along the way, but ultimately we, too, need to put in the hands.

Intellectually, I believe you. I trust a lot of advice here (even given that it's often conflicting) but I think I need experience to internalize it.

[Godfather80]

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I guess my point (and this wasn't really under contention) is that we all need to develop card-sense for ourselves. I think advice here points us in the right way, and can save us some money along the way, but ultimately we, too, need to put in the hands.

Intellectually, I believe you. I trust a lot of advice here (even given that it's often conflicting) but I think I need experience to internalize it.

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What's weird is, that sounds a lot like this:

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There is nothing wrong with disbelieving others and proving things to yourself. All great players do this (more or less) as they move up.

What I'm saying is that you can keep your own council when reading these forums, but its a lot more beneficial when you have exhausted the resources of others, not when you are just starting out.


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[Cosimo]

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What's weird is, that sounds a lot like this:

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Heh, I lost some posts at some point, so I guess I didn't read the whole thread. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Back to your regularly scheduled post now...

Edit: hmm, caught up and read the ones I missed, good stuff.

[scrapperdog]

Asking why AJ os is a loser utg is like asking why the sky is blue. It doesn't matter why the sky is blue, it just is.