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#11
12-06-2005, 04:30 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.) If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff? But the coach is really overreacting. [/ QUOTE ] I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now. [/ QUOTE ] That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper? 
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#12
12-06-2005, 04:32 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.) If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff? But the coach is really overreacting. [/ QUOTE ] I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now. [/ QUOTE ] That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this is not the type of board to slowplay, either villain has a hand that will call your bets, or he has a hand that wont. If he does, might as well build the pot to win more on river, and if he doesnt, [censored] him. If the board were something like 10102 rainbow and we had 1010 then a slowplay MAY be correct.
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#13
12-06-2005, 04:37 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
I'd bet here also, but I'd just like to make sure my line of thinking is correct.
In general you want to bet the turn here so that if a villain calls he's priced into the hand, correct? In this case BB only had $8.50 left so he'd be all-in but even if he had more, you'd bet the turn to get him committed to the pot so he's likely to call a river bet as well?
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#14
12-06-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
Assuming villian is on a flush draw, he will pay to see the river - he's getting reasonable odds. Bet the turn.
If you check the turn and the river is a blank, which it will be ~75% of the time, you're not getting anymore money out of him. HOH2 spells this out quite nicely.
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#15
12-06-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
What the hell do you know???
I had QUADS!!! You can teach me how to play when you get quads!! I'm the best, ya see. I got QUADS!!! One more reason I rarely keep chat on. You played it fine, table coach was a shmoo.. Villian wasn't calling anything that didnt pair his kicker or make him trips anyway, the T didn't scare him off, bet was right. Fastplay is the new slowplay anyway...
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#16
12-06-2005, 05:36 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.) If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff? But the coach is really overreacting. [/ QUOTE ] I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now. [/ QUOTE ] That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I'm still gonna lead based on the same principle. Here you have to be more careful to price the BB in, since he's not down to $8.50, but checking really accomplishes nothing in the deep stack scenario (unless you have a read that this guy is aggressive and will take a shot once you show weakness).
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#18
12-06-2005, 05:46 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.) If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff? But the coach is really overreacting. [/ QUOTE ] I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now. [/ QUOTE ] That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I'm still gonna lead based on the same principle. Here you have to be more careful to price the BB in, since he's not down to $8.50, but checking really accomplishes nothing in the deep stack scenario (unless you have a read that this guy is aggressive and will take a shot once you show weakness). [/ QUOTE ] How much will you lead turn given a Deep stack situation (villain covers)? 1/2 pot? more?
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#19
12-06-2005, 05:48 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
Deep stacked, 1/2 pot looks good, looks like a I fold to further aggresion bet. Maybe slightly less than 1/2 pot is better if villain is aggro and notices these things, if he is a calling station 1/2 is nice.
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#20
12-06-2005, 05:50 PM
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Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
One question I have is why show the quads? What is gained by this?
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