consistent losing

[ras]

On $3/6 Omaha 8 Party, I must be the worst player, or unluckiest. I play with quality starters and get outdrawn or counterfeited. I am beaten regularly by people who will call or raise with poor cards. It is endless and I am consistently losing my money. I am thinking about quitting poker as I have read and studied. Hard to believe that anyone gets anywhere, except Party! Comments?

Bob

Take a shot at pot limit? It's less frustrating and at the lower levels it's pretty easy to always get in with the best of it. You will find a lot more heads up and three way situations where you can read hands much more easily and punish bad players. I haven't been playing long but $25 and $50 are like printing money, even for an average player like me.

[bodie]

Bob,
How long have you been playing?
You want to make sure that not only are you playing quality starters, but that you're able to tell when you should fold those starters if the flop misses you.
When you say you're getting outdrawn, that means to me that you might be chasing with hands that aren't the nuts....are you protecting them by raising so that others have to pay to chase a flush draw, etc? Remember that in O8 hands like top two pair and straights aren't very strong hands.
When you say you're getting counterfeited, that tells me that, though you might be playing A, 2 - perhaps too often they aren't protected by another good wheel card. You may find it wiser to fold those preflop when there's a lot of raising...
And of course there's always the fact that in O8 these things will happen - some players will chase all the way to the end with insane starting hands and then get lucky. Nothing you can do about that except try to raise them off their chase.

Good luck

[Wolffink]

Good point about pot limit 08. I'd stopped playing limit 08 because my results were mediocre, but started out playing pot limit and it's been great for me. Since some sites have .01/.02 or .05/.10 if you're as reasonable a player as your post indicates, you shouldn't have a problem being a successful player right off the bat, I think.

But a tight limit 08 game is no fun. If everyone else is playing like you, good quality hands, and it often comes down to someone attacking the blinds in late position--I find another game. And of course there's variance. And although one poster mentioned, that you might want to have another wheel card with your A-2...well sure. I"d like to have AA23 ds too, but they don't come around often enough. It's disappointing to be disciplined and wait for your good quality hands, like you're doing, like a suited A-2, and then when you do get them, the board comes high. Or your T-J-Q-K ds and the board comes low, not in your suit. It happens to everyone.

I'd suggest re-reading Zee and taking a break from limit 08 for a while and then coming back to it. If you have Wilson Turbo O8, play a challenge match and make sure you don't have any leaks in your game.

[ras]

thanks for the feedback - i will follow all advice about plo, etc.

bob

[ QUOTE ]
On $3/6 Omaha 8 Party, I must be the worst player, or unluckiest. I play with quality starters and get outdrawn or counterfeited. I am beaten regularly by people who will call or raise with poor cards. It is endless and I am consistently losing my money. I am thinking about quitting poker as I have read and studied. Hard to believe that anyone gets anywhere, except Party! Comments?

Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

Stick with it, and don't give up on limit. I believe that, ultimately, limit games will give you the lowest variance in on-line games because your bets costs less while you have less info. In NL or PL you're going to have tough decisions regularly. Also, remember that limit has a great advantage in that weaker players are more likely to call, although their schooling will increase your variance.

You may want to loosen up a little as well. On top of the "good" hands, give these guys some thought, even when the table's tight:

Any hand that has 3 or more cards under 5 (you don't have to have an Ace in limit, but you should probably have one in NL or PL);

Any hand that has 4 cards over Ten;

Any hand that has four cards in sequential rank (and double suited being the bomb) such as 7,8,9,10 (some/most people hate the sixes through nines, I am in love with wheel stompers when they're connected);

You can call the raises with these "marginal" hands within reason, fold more often if the table is tight aggressive and you're OOP.

When the table is looser (i.e. 4 or more players seeing the flop), then you need to be looser before the flop as well. Consider playing:

Any: AAxx, KKxx, QQxx, JJxx, 10-10xx, 99xx (with xx being close in rank to the pairs and preferably suited at least once);

Any A2xx or A3xx (again you will want the xx's to be close and hopefully suited);

When the table is mega-loose; it can pay to play any four cards. Ugg, I hear the tight ones groaning, but hear me out.

When the table is tight, starting hands are extremely important. You are facing good cards and low odds. When the table is loose, it's what you flop that counts because you are getting great odds.

You also really need to focus on letting go of bad flops early. Don't feel you have to stay in a scary board with top two pair or a set just because their are players who repeatedly take in pots with such "junk" when there are str8's or flushes on the board.

BTW - you are not the worst. If you are smart enough to know what a good starting hand in O/8 is, you just can't be the worst, not at that limit. Don't let variance distract you or put you on tilt. (Little bit of a hypocrite here, I did that just last week, and blew a boat load of money...lol) When you get the nuances of flop play, you will have a lot more fun than you ever will at hold'em.

[gergery]

Post some hands you think you played well.

-greg

[Wolffink]

Interesting suggestion, Morphball, of the 7-8-9-T ds. I've thrown away mid-level cards routinely following Zee and TJ Cloutier. But I can see playing this in late position.