AKs.

[ QUOTE ]
Calling here keeps the pot smaller and charges me less when I'm beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think thats true. If you call a bet on later streets, you end up paying more than you would if you just raised in the first place, and you're still unsure of what he has.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
The board is draw heavy

[/ QUOTE ]

How? It's a rainbow flop with only gutshot draws which are over 3:1 dogs to me. I would be more scared that some dominated paints just outflopped me or someone flopped a straight or set. I do not see a gutshot leading into me here EVER, by the way. I try and keep pots small until I can figure out what the [censored] is going on.


[ QUOTE ]
I don't think thats true. If you call a bet on later streets, you end up paying more than you would if you just raised in the first place, and you're still unsure of what he has.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but a call here will usually slow down the opponent who has a weaker hand. How often do you see people leading on the turn again with some crap like KJ? I don't see it happening that often. And I'm only folding if he bets a good amount. I'll call down another $12 bet and most likely raise.

[stu-unger]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you'll find this bet into the pre flop raiser is attempting to accomplish exactly what you allowed it to -- freeze you up when you have the best hand, but would have bet more when checked to.

I expect villain to have a hand like QJ quite often.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he has QJ i am playing perfectly by calling and checking am i not? i dont get why u want to be so aggro all of the time. the way i play it the pot stays small and i win the most when im ahead. the way u play it u build a huge pot and will have to fold the best hand sometimes and lose more when we dont have the best hand.

[ QUOTE ]

How? It's a rainbow flop with only a few gutshots. I would be more scared that some dominated paints just outflopped me.

Yes, but a call here will usually slow down the opponent who has a weaker hand. How often do you see people leading on the turn again with some crap like KJ? I don't see it happening that often. And I'm only folding if he bets a good amount. I'll call down another $12 bet and most likely raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely see KJ betting again on turn. As would K10. If someone calls behind me to such a weak bet, I expect them to be drawing. So if the turn doesn't make any hands, I bet again.

I maintain, the weak bet on the flop COULD indicate to me that he wants to see a draw cheaply. If you call, you're further allowing yourself to be bluffed on the turn when you don't have a drawing hand, you have a made hand.

[ QUOTE ]

the way u play it u build a huge pot and will have to fold the best hand sometimes and lose more when we dont have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the contrary, I think thats EXACTLY what calling and checking does. If he bets on the turn, you either fold (which could very well be folding the good hand) or call (which could just be spewing chips, because you have no idea where you stand)

[scdavis0]

What is the minimum amount that you are going to let your opponent bet so that you won't get scared and freeze up with TPTK? $10? $8? $6?

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely see KJ betting again on turn. As would K10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. I guess this is where our opinions differ. I do not see KJo or KTo being likely candidates for cold-calling a 6xBB preflop raise, and then leading into the PFR TWICE, after he has called their bet on a tricky painted flop.


[ QUOTE ]
What is the minimum amount that you are going to let your opponent bet so that you won't get scared and freeze up with TPTK? $10? $8? $6?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to look at the situation of the hand, not just the amount being bet. He cold-called a 6xBB preflop raise OOP. I think this is either 99, AQ or KQ. These are his most likely holdings IMO. Why would KJo lead into the PFR, as well as 500 people here and then fire again once called? Sure, being called isn't the same as being raised, but it's always scary.

Again, I guess our opinions are just different on how our opponents play. This is fine. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[scdavis0]

I find it interesting that all the reasons you give for NOT raising the flop would seem to dictate NOT betting the turn, which you did for some reason. Especially considering that a hand like KJ is a 10:1 dog now.

[scdavis0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I definitely see KJ betting again on turn. As would K10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. I guess this is where our opinions differ. I do not see KJo or KTo being likely candidates for cold-calling a 6xBB preflop raise, and then leading into the PFR TWICE, after he has called their bet on a tricky painted flop.


[ QUOTE ]
What is the minimum amount that you are going to let your opponent bet so that you won't get scared and freeze up with TPTK? $10? $8? $6?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to look at the situation of the hand, not just the amount being bet. He cold-called a 6xBB preflop raise OOP. I think this is either 99, AQ or KQ. These are his most likely holdings IMO. Why would KJo lead into the PFR, as well as 500 people here and then fire again once called? Sure, being called isn't the same as being raised, but it's always scary.

Again, I guess our opinions are just different on how our opponents play. This is fine. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I would expect that the bet is intended to freeze me up when he has a hand like QJ and doesn't want to call a big bet. Notice that you are neither way ahead of nor way behind QJ.

[stu-unger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

the way u play it u build a huge pot and will have to fold the best hand sometimes and lose more when we dont have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the contrary, I think thats EXACTLY what calling and checking does. If he bets on the turn, you either fold (which could very well be folding the good hand) or call (which could just be spewing chips, because you have no idea where you stand)

[/ QUOTE ]

i understand this point of view, but heres how i see it. if i raise the flop it is likely to cost me the same ammount as if i call the flop and them call the size bet im willing to call on the turn. i think it is highly likely he checks to me on the turn. and i think he may bet hands i beat again on the turn even if i raise. i think this hand all really comes down to how u read the villain.