100/200 9Ts

Paluka · #1 10-12-2005, 09:38 AM

5 handed 100/200. I raise 9hTh utg. A loose, fishy player cold calls. A solid player 3 bets on the button, both blinds fold. I call, fish calls.
Flop 987 with 2 clubs. I check, fish checks, solid players bets, I call, fish checkraises. We both call. I really wasn't sure what to do on the flop.
Turn is a small club, either a 2 or a 3. Check, bet, call, call.
River is the 6c, giving me a straight but putting 4 clubs on board. Check, check, and now the preflop 3 bettor bets. Am I calling here? Did I put myself in a bad position by playing my hand so weakly on earlier streets?

ALL1N · #2 10-12-2005, 09:49 AM

Woa how can you not CR the flop??

DcifrThs · #3 10-12-2005, 09:50 AM

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Woa how can you not CR the flop??

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he didn't want to lose the fish and be HU OOP w/ a solid player on the later streets.

Barron

stoxtrader · #4 10-12-2005, 09:55 AM

i would call river and likely play the entire hand the same way you did.

you could have raise on the flop or turn, but then you would have had to make a post like "was this chip spewing cause the guy 3 bet me"

ALL1N · #5 10-12-2005, 09:56 AM

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Woa how can you not CR the flop??

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he didn't want to lose the fish and be HU OOP w/ a solid player on the later streets.

Barron

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Are you telling me that you also don't CR the flop??

DcifrThs · #6 10-12-2005, 09:56 AM

interesting...

solid player has played it as if he has overs with a club or an overpair with a club...he's betting despite being bet into by the fish and c'red on earlier streets so he knows the fish is calling. id say a river fold is ok.

the flop is where i think after you dont lose the fish and he c'rs, id 3bet and collect two bets from both of them and then lead the turn b/c at this point, you can lay it down to a turn raise if a club hits the board because of the strength you showed earlier.

and to answer your question, yea its kinda tough to put you on any kind of good hand b/c of the way you played it.

EDIT: i think my last sentance the the first one contradict each other. given the last sentance i think the first one is incorrect and you should call.

Barron

krishanleong · #7 10-12-2005, 09:57 AM

I would generally cr the flop. Try and push out a fishes 5, 3 outer, better defines your hand against the tag (although with the open ender, maybe that not valueable).

I still think you are in good shape on the turn. Could you consider a cr? What % of the time do you think you have the best hand at this point? I'd guess at least half the time.

River stinks. I'm trying to come up with hands Villian might value bet here worse than your hand. The fish obviously saying he doesn't have the flush makes it a little easier for Villian to valye bet. He can't be betting a an overpair here based on previous action. I think Villian has to be betting the straight (AJ) or the flush here. I don't think you can call profitable to the split. I fold.

Krishan

krishanleong · #8 10-12-2005, 09:58 AM

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the flop is where i think after you dont lose the fish and he c'rs, id 3bet and collect two bets from both of them and then lead the turn b/c at this point, you can lay it down to a turn raise if a club hits the board because of the strength you showed earlier.

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I like it. The fish could be playing T8, T7, J8 or 96 this way very easily.

Krishan

phish · #9 10-12-2005, 10:28 AM

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Woa how can you not CR the flop??

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he didn't want to lose the fish and be HU OOP w/ a solid player on the later streets.

Barron

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In many hands this would be a legitimate consideration, but I don't think that's applicable here. With this flop and the size of the pot, you're going to the river, and most likely showdown. Once you've decided this, then the proper thing to do is to try to increase your chances of winning the pot, by raising out the third guy, EVEN if he is a fish and EVEN if there's a good chance you'll be reraised. Keep in mind that getting reraised isn't the worst thing in the world since you have 8 outs for the straight, 2 outs for trips and likely 3 outs for two-pair (especially if the third guy goes out). With 2 cards to come, you're almost even money heads up. And if the fish calls, and the other guy reraises, you're still getting proper return with 11 outs. So reraising is a no-brainer.

Plus there is some chance that you have the best hand. And if you don't want to play heads-up against the tough guy, you can simply back off and check and call the rest of the way after the fish is gone.

I'm sorry, but failure to checkraise that flop is such a glaring mistake that I can't even get to the rest of the play of the hand.

HiatusOver · #10 10-12-2005, 11:06 AM

I check-raise this flop for sure. U dont want the guy in the middle in this pot, who cares if he is a fish, u got his fishy dead money when he cold called u pre-flop. Now get rid of him. This is a classic case where u might be ahead, or u might not, but u should raise anyways cause it is a disaster when u do have the best hand but u let the guy in the middle stay in to beat u when he would have folded. BTW, the fact that u have the straight draw IMO makes the raise even better because u still have a bunch of equity when the button has u beat. One more thing, if this game was full and we could greatly narrow down the solid players range, then your line has way more merit because u are so often behind. That is not the case here though.