This needs to be settled, vote on Empire here

[CountDuckula]

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Who could possibly vote that this is good business policy? The far better solution is to restrict reload bonuses to regular players.

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60% of the voters so far. I really can't believe it either! Not too many marketing or business majors out there it appears. I'm starting to get worried that PP and skins have many players brainwashed into thinking they can do whatever the hell they want to and players must just go along with it or get banned.

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Well, you can subtract one "yes" and add it to "no"; I misread the question. D'oh! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I think it's reasonable for them to keep people from playing there just for bonuses. However, I agree with those who are saying they simply should avoid offering them to everyone; they should pick the players they want to keep around, and offer the bonuses to them only.

I have to admit, though, I'm half hoping they'll ban me and send me $5 for the 19 cents or so I happen to have there right now.... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-Mike

[DMBFan23]

how much do you think that will cost Empire in infrastructure changes? a banning costs them zero except for bad customer relations. I will say that someone estimated that their losses from that would be less than the cost to upgrade infrastructure.

we are all biased in our opinions (well not me, I am a regular there) so our opinions aren't going to objectively represent what is actually good business practice from an EV standpoint, IMO.

[Vern]

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Who could possibly vote that this is good business policy? The far better solution is to restrict reload bonuses to regular players.

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Re-load bonuses are not to reward long term players as much as attract fresh blood, so offering one only to those that play alot, would be a waste, from a business POV, unless it was perceived by the business as a form of customer retention. The biggest target for re-load bonuses is those customers that have stopped playing a site, to attract them back. That is why I think a hands per $ requirement should be based on your MGR for a time period, like the last 6 months. Then if all you do is play re-load bonuses, the next bonus would require you to play more hands, and the next one more after that, but if you were just some player who opened an account last summer and forgot about, the re-load would not be that hard to clear, and therefor attractive anough to get you back and hopefully enjoying the site enough to stay. This also has the effect of rewarding long terms players for retention by offering them the same bonuses with easy clearning requirements since they are +MGR over the time period.

[Vern]

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Who could possibly vote that this is good business policy? The far better solution is to restrict reload bonuses to regular players.

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60% of the voters so far. I really can't believe it either! Not too many marketing or business majors out there it appears. I'm starting to get worried that PP and skins have many players brainwashed into thinking they can do whatever the hell they want to and players must just go along with it or get banned.

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I am a marketing major and I voted yes. I have not followed this to the letter but as far as I understand it, empire is banning people that costs them money.

These same people are the players that thinks this is a marketing fiasco. The "real" players understands why Empire is doing this and they also understand that the money saved will probably somehow be used to keep the profitable customers happy.

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The problem was, when it started happening, none of those 'real' players knew anything and neither did the players (myself included) that got the axe. Empire could have come out smelling like a rose had they announced they would be terminating accounts of players that it became apparent were only playing for bonuses. No one could then offer a rational arguement for a bad busniess move, not even those that got the axe. Heck, we are not arguing it was a bad business move to axe bonus chasers, our comments are more to the manner, which in the beginning scared players regardless of whether they were banned or not.

Vern

[afk]

I agree with you there Vern. Things would have been a lot better had they just been honest right off the bat and saying why they were banning the accounts.

[MicroBob]

haven't read the whole thread.


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as far as I understand it, empire is banning people that costs them money.

These same people are the players that thinks this is a marketing fiasco.

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I play on empire a lot...and still play there although not quite as much. And I also think it is a marketing fiasco and a terrible decision.


Even Party itself hasn't done anything like this.
Nor has Stars or crypto or pokerroom or anywhere else.

If it is really such a great plan to ban these players (as opposed to any other options they could have chosen) then they are the only ones to have figured this out.


Stars and crypto's bonuses kept me coming back.

I decided I like Stars enough to continue playing there in the absence of customers.
That was part of the strategy of their re-load in the first place. To attract some of their current customers.

For quite awhile they were not making any revenue on my play there. I was pretty much bonusing there only.


Crypto could have had a chance to win my business too by continually bringing me back to check them out.
Unfortunately for them...I don't particularly care for the software there.
However...that hasn't stopped me from occasionally giving them another shot during another bonus-clear.


I don't like what Empire is doing one bit but they will continue to have my business because I'm in the royal-flush club and the benefits are too good to pass up even if their points structure is idiotic.


I get the free $100/month (no raked-hands requirement), occasional RF club freerolls, a free TV will be coming shortly, and they also have some raffles giving away various pries like a laptop or digital camera.
So I'll continue to play there with some of these incentives.


But everything they are giving me compared with the amount I am playing there isn't exactly lining their pockets either


Obviously empire is well within their rights to ban whatever players they want. But those who think they are actually gaining EV out of banning these players are not really correct
...they could have done other things to stop any of the trivial losses they have suffered while perhaps doing more to attract the players to stay there longer during non-bonus times.

Or they could just take the patient approach like stars and other sites and continue to bring the vanishing players back until they decide, like me, that they like playing there regardless of whether a bonus is offered.
With some of their VIP incentives they could potentially have done thing with some customers.

[Miggo]

Whether it's good business practice or not, I don't know, I think you'd have to look at the financial statements of the company in the future and see.

I just wanted to make the point, that if a retail store did this, they'd be taken to court. If I went into Wal-Mart and just bought sale items, and then Wal-Mart decides to not allow me in the store because I only buy items that are on sale, I think they'd be on CNN that night.

[Aetherish]

Everyone has got to calm down. This has become a Whore vs. Whore-hater war, and has hardly anything to do with Empire's business practices.

Is actively discouraging whoring good for Empire's bottom line: Yes.

Are they going about it in the right way: No.

If they want to discourage abuse, then remove the privilege (no more bonuses) or change the T & C so that the bonus work for them (Empire).

Banning people, with no warning, just antagonizes them. Remember that whores followed the letter of the agreement.

For those of you who think that whores are -EV players without their bonus... Who are they loosing that money to? It's not always the fish.

Whining about it either way is non-productive and juvenile. I think the overall concern should be Empires practices, not who they happen to be targeting. Who's next? 5+ bb/100 players? Why not protect this fish from the sharks, and keep the common man happy?

[teamdonkey]

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I really can't believe it either! Not too many marketing or business majors out there it appears.

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no, just a bunch of armchair CEO's who beleive they have all the needed information and know exactly what is best for Empire.

We all know Party (and skins) bonuses are by far the easiest to clear. We know they are the largest player in the market right now, and have been for some time. Obviously they realize there is a problem with some people abusing their bonus (thus the bans).

it's vaguely possible that someone somewhere in this huge highly profitable company mentioned in passing that they could up the bonus requirements instead.

since they chose to ban whores and not change the bonuses, i'd assume they have a legitimate business reason to do so. banning people they lose money from and pissing off others who are most likely whoring bonuses from 4 skins with 3 accounts on each probably doesn't bother them much.

- TeamDonkey, arm chair CEO in-training

[Piers]

I suspect it was a 'political' decision on Empire's part not a financial one.

Also I as sure someone got a lot of satisfaction out of designing those bonus whore hating Emails.