O8...When to play 2-3?

[GMan42]

Been trying to plug some holes in my game, one of which is that I think I play too many hands with 2-3. I know this is not nearly as profitable combination as A-2 or A-3, but what requirements do you guys have to play a starting hand with it? Another wheel card? A big pair? Two high cards with single/double suitedness? Just curious.

[Buzz]

G-Man -

Hands with 23 to play even if non-suited:
AA23 even if non-suited
A223 even if non-suited
A233 even if non-suited
A234 even if non-suited
A235 even if non-suited
A236 even if non-suited
A237 even if non-suited
A238 even if non-suited
A239 even if non-suited
A23T even if non-suited
A23J even if non-suited
A23Q even if non-suited
A23K even if non-suited
2234 even if non-suited
2235 even if non-suited
2334 even if non-suited
2335 even if non-suited
2344 even if non-suited
2355 even if non-suited
23KK even if non-suited

Hands with 23 to play if at least single suited:
2245 if at least single suited
2345 if at least single suited
2346 if at least single suited
2347 if at least single suited
234K if at least single suited
2356 if at least single suited
2357 if at least single suited
2366 if at least single suited
23JJ if at least single suited
23QQ if at least single suited

Hands with 23 to play only if at double suited:
2236 double suited only
2246 double suited only
2336 double suited only
2348 double suited only
2349 double suited only
234T double suited only
234J double suited only
234Q double suited only
2358 double suited only
2359 double suited only
235T double suited only
235J double suited only
235Q double suited only
235K double suited only
2367 double suited only
2368 double suited only
23TT double suited only
23QK double suited only

Use some discretion. The above is intended only as a crude guideline.

You might not want to play all hands listed for more than a single bet.

Hands are more playable from late position than from early middle position.

My own personal philosophy is that you can raise or not with any hand that is playable. That written, whether you actually raise or not depends on a number of factors. You probably should tend to raise less with the weaker hands from the above list when you expect to be called and probably have to play the hand out to the showdown.

Defending blinds is a different matter altogether.

Once you see the flop the above lists have no meaning whatsoever in terms of what hands you should continue to play.

Buzz

[Omaha8Player]

Hi Buzz. How would you change that list if you were playing PL insted of limit. My experience tells me that low dobblesuited and singelsuited hands are not that muche stronger than the non suited becouse what you are hopingfore in PL is not the flush but some good low straights and if the flush hits you may eaven whant to fold.

Best regards Fredrik

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
How would you change that list if you were playing PL insted of limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fredrik - I don't know.

Pot limit Omaha-8 is a completely different game than limit Omaha-8. Honestly, it would take a lot of fresh thinking on my part and also much more pot-limit Omaha-8 playing experience to answer your question properly.

I do think I listed the better limit Omaha-8 starting hands that contain a deuce and a trey - but which hands with a deuce and a trey I'd actually play in a limit game would very much depend, among other factors, on the particular group of opponents I was playing and also on my position at the table.

I might not always play all the hands on the list in a limit-Omaha-8 game - and, especially in a very loose limit game, I might (or might not) add some others.

Pot limit adds a whole new dimension. I was happy when you pot limit Omaha people got your own 2+2 forum.

Sorry not to be of much help to you this time.

Buzz

[TL Price]

Well, I am just getting into playing O8, but have read Ray Zee's high/low split poker and am playing at lower limits in order to brush up.

I don't think there is an absolute answer here. Much depends on the table, how many people are passive versus agressive, how many people see the flop, position relative to the button, etc...

To start, a naked 2-3 with nothing else going for it is an almost certain fold, except maybe where you are SB and everyone else limps (no folds). Then complete to see the flop and hope you get an A and a 4-8, o.w. fold.

I like to play 2-3 if I have a suited K to go with it and I get in cheap with the hand. 2-3-K-K is also playable, imho (preferably with one or both K's suited). But the possibility of having some sort of live redraw is critical. And with QQ to go with 2-3, I probably fold unless there are less than 4 people in, and then I get in cheap hoping to flop a Q or some other reasonable hand.

I don't mention A-2-3, or AA-2-3, or 2-3-4, because I think the answer is straightforward...you play. (Well, maybe not 2-3-4 in a jammed pot pre-flop, but that is an exception)

Of course, these are my own comments and are not based on a rigorous mathematical study [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But I have found that (at least the lower limits) O8 H/L is the most profitable poker opportunity out there, even in comparison to Hold 'Em or 7-Stud. Playing a tight game without getting too agressive has been a winning strategy for me over the past 3 weeks and I plan to continue playing O8 H/L exclusively for the foreseeable future.

Best of Luck at the Tables!

[MHoydilla]

If in late position or in a game where theres not much preflop raising 23 with any two T-K suited has some value. Some of the value of having 2 non pairing ten cards is that if an ace flops you flop atleast 3 to the nut low and nut straight (broadway). Giving you more scooping chances.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
Been trying to plug some holes in my game, one of which is that I think I play too many hands with 2-3. I know this is not nearly as profitable combination as A-2 or A-3, but what requirements do you guys have to play a starting hand with it? Another wheel card? A big pair? Two high cards with single/double suitedness? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you never played 23xy without an ace in limit Omaha-8, you'd give up very little. Unless an ace hits the board, 23 will almost never win low, and if an ace does hit the board, you will almost never have the nut high.

In pot-limit, you should play 23xy only (1) if you can get in cheaply, and (2) your hand can potentially hit a monster flop (even if it does so rarely - while hands that hit huge hands rarely in limit Omaha-8 won't make enough on those huge hands to make up for the many times you miss the flop). Most 23xy hands don't have serious high/scoop potential, and have little or no value in pot-limit. Examples of playable 23xy hands are KK32, QQ32, 5432, 6432 and 6532.